Ford 6000 ~ 1959 - good tractor?

[jfh0jfh]

I agree with you about injuries caused by other tractors and implements; and that there could be much fuss about a few SOS injuries/ deaths; etc. The Pinto gas tank; Audi engine mounts; Corvair IRS.

My angle on this was simply objecting to your suggestion that it was creep: you said you didn't believe that an SOS/ Power-Shift would jump into gear; you introduced gear tractors and the idea that that was different; you mentioned creep in HST.

Based on what I'm hearing/ reading, I don't think that an SOS creeps. I think it jumps into gear because either 1) the lever is physically moved by the tractor being jarred (as has happened with my JDs and my TD-8 dozer); or 2) the lever is moved by pressure changes as the tractor idles (as I thnk also happens with my JD).

I don't have much experience with Fords. I usually have JD because I the mechanic I know does JD and is willing to advise me when I have problems. If he'd been a Ford man, I'd probably own more Fords. I like any equipment that works reasonably well, doesn't leak too much hydraulic fluid, and can be repaired at a decent cost.

Nevertheless, I am going to stay away from an SOS units. Not because of the jumping into gear but because of the repair/ reliability issues. Just as I stay away from JD 10s.

If you simply don't believe that a tractor with hydro-assist can jump into gear, that's your opinion in the face of much info to the contrary.

Believe me though, the last thing I want is to make this an ad hominem argument. I'm just saying that there seems a reasonable case for "jump" vs "creep" and IMO applying "creep" to an SOS is Ford putting a positive spin on it.

I don't know why you have to be so completely rude every time we have a disagreement and then beat that same old drum that I am not as old as you yada, yada, yada.

I don't have to be born in 1912 to know something about the titanic.

I'm not being nostalgic. People get hurt on farm equipment. it's happened before they had motors on them.. every make and brand.

I've never indicated that SOS was a good piece of machinere or idea for ford. in fact.. I've avoided owning one. .. However.. as a ford enthusiast.. I have tried to research their history, along with other ford products before and after the SOS legacy since i own some of those models.

Any piece of machinery can malfunction.. no argument there. However. this SOS death spree seems to be a mountain / molehill issue. I'd wager we are talking about some extremly limited numbers / deaths related to real SOS -jump-into-gear injuries, vs other related farm injuries.

I wonder how many people have been kille dby threshers? binders? drils? mowers? sawmills?

You don't see people walking the streets condeming bailers cause people go and do thing without safety on their mind and then get sucked in and killed.

I wonder how many people been wound up on pto shafts?

Most of my tractor manuals I can get my hands on say to shut the tractor down before dismounting. How many of us here do that? Would the person that got killed byt he sos tranny have not got run over if he had heeded a warning in a manual? .. or did he do like many of us and figure that small chance would be a safe one to take....

Now.. if you want to debate.. lets do so.. however.. why not leave the rudeness at home. And quit beating your chest about how much older and smarter yuo are than people wo weren't born when you were. That's just plain unprofesiional and doesn't add squatt to the discussion.

If those are the only 2 putdowns you know to use on me.. give them a rest.. or at least find some new way to insult me .. you know... something fresh. I'd insult you back by my parents raised me better than that.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Over the years, I've learned a thing or two off of the internet and from reading various history accounts. One of the things I've learned is you can't always believe what you read. Sometimes that's a matter of what you DON'T read. Sometimes what you do read is simply a glossed over account of what really happened. It's hard to replace "being there when it happened". When the writer of that history has a vested interest in the image of the subject they're writing about, it's generally a safe bet they'll color the story a little different than factual.

No argument there..I'm not saying everything ever said or in print is true. Just look at politicians.

The SelectOspeed tranny had other issues besides the obvious saftey problems. They were unreliable and easily damaged from the get go.

And they are picky on oil, filter changes and general maintenance. I'm not defending them at all. I personally doubt I would own one.. unless it had been reworked, and was a parade piece.. deffinately would invest in one as a worker. For some reason you think I'm rabidly defending them.. when I'm not.

So, you term it "rude" when ever someone points out the specifics of how and why your opinion is flawed?

No.. I term it rude when someone who is arguing has to slip in a personal attack. If you want to convers, fine, debate, fine.. argue.. fine.. but leave the personal remarks out..

I don't recall "pounding my chest" at any point.

Repititious acts. You have implied in your last message, and previous ones that someone who has 'less than a lifetime of experience can't possibly know anywhere as much as someone how does' That nifty little verbage was lifted out of a message you posted to me a few months back.. ring any bells?

. (An opinion skewed by blind loyalty to a brand that apparently is to be held above reproach and is capable of doing no wrong in your eyes)

I have no blind loyalty to any color.. and no color is beyond reproach. I happen to like to collect fords.. but do own plenty of other colors. My first tractor wasn't a ford. They have their problems like most any brand. I ended up settling on them for a wide variety of reasons, 1 being that they are generally under represented in shows.. and what not.. probably because many of them are still out inthe field working while many of their contemporaries are on parade duty... that's just baseless conjecture.. but seems to be true in the area I live. All the JD's and case and AC/MM's have cherry paint jobs and new tires and set in garages while if you see a ford.. it's rusty, and has a mower on it, and is parked by the barn. Another reason is the general attitudes of the owners in clubs I've been in. For the most part.. ford owners seem to be way more easygoing than say.. for instance. green owners.. who seem to be the elite snobs of he collector community. The yellow guys seem to be mostly concerned about pulling, and the orange guys generally seem to fall in line hospitality wise with t he ford people.. I considered colelcting orange.. however.. they are so scarce here you have to stand in line to get one.. thus it was not a good choice....
I've got plenty of complaints about fords.. Just looking at their design implementation and changes in some lines makes it hard to find compatible parts. Aftermarket suppliers that make 'universal' parts that fint many models don't help any, as anyone knows whos tried to change a manifold on a hundred series gasser... the repops -almost- fit good.. and the carbs almost line up perfectly... still.. 1 manifold fits the 134/172 so cheaper to stock..e tc.

"Unprofessional"? What part of this do you see as your profession? Or mine?

As it pertains to manners and the way you treat the person you are talking to. Would you make constant remarks about age and other insults to a customer of your business simply because they disagreed with you?

. Do you suppose the families of those killed would term it "mountain/Mole hill" ? To minimize someone's death because, in your eyes' it disparages your favorite brand is simply incredable. There's a huge difference between inherent dangers of a complicated machine and dangerous design flaws that injure people in NORMAL, routine use.

I'm not downplaying a single death.. or trivializing it.. however.. the # of SOS related deaths.. do you have a number? 10? 100? 1000? ( I don't know? ).. compair that to 1 years death rate inthe farming industry.. or.. to be more fair.. compair the total # of years those deaths occured in, to a comparable # of years deaths from farming accidents.. same years.. etc.. I'll bet it's a pretty low ratio. Not insignificant for the families.. but as a statistic...it's different. Her's that chest beating again you said you don't do... Yes.. ford is my prefered brand to collect.. however i don't blindly defend their every action.. I do however like to look at things in perspective. Ford was one of the first companies to come out with some pretty nice safety features to protect operators... like tranny interlocked safety starter switches. I wonder how many people have been killed by starting their tractor from the ground while it was in gear.. I know all my other color tractor can unsafely start in gear.. unless I bypass the safety features onthe fords.. they won't. In the big scheme of things.. that has to account for something...

As a 13 year old, I went with my father every day and helped take care of chores for a neighbor who was hospitalized with 2 broken legs and several broken ribs when his new Ford SOS decided to run over him while he was hooking up a hay rake. It wasn't an isolated incident. It happened enough to cause Ford to recall all the SOS tractors they'd sold to that point for a re-fit. No, it wasn't your fault. So don't take it like someone accused you of wrong doing.

An unfortunate accident / failure of the machine / bad design. for all involved... can't help but think if they had turned the tractor off that might not have happened.. but then.. that's just another one of those inconvienient little safety blurbs manufacturers put in their owners manuals... ( yes.. ford has them listed in their old manuals.. ).

And why is it you have to take EVERYTHING so personally? Where did I mention YOU specifically being too young to know anything? Seems to be a sore spot with you. Maybe I struck a nerve with that, who knows?

Youve mentioned it in a previous message, as i pointed out, and then in this last message this little bit of verbage seems to be fairly specific, and familiar sounding to what you previously wrote ( this is from your last message):

I'm not going to get into a debate over why revisionist history by Ford collectors, some of whom weren't even born yet, muchless not old enough to have been a tractor owner/user at the time when the SOS was going through developemental problems

Right or wrong.. all I'm asking for is a civilized conversation / debate / argument. at the end if I'm wrong or we disagree.. who cares.. just leave the insults in the back pocket. That's all I ask. And I promise not to take it personally if you promise to stop insulting me when we converse.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

This SOS trans (A Brit design? Related to Fordson/ Dexta?) wasn't just in the 6000. It was in 01s, 5000s, _71s, others?

Not sure if it was a brit design or not. AFAIK.. the guy that designed the SOS went to work for JD later on.. SOS came about in 59 or so in the 01 series and persisted thru the 000 series.. I don't think they made it past late 75 when the x600 series came out...

There's some disagreement on when/ how they were fixed: some say the bugs were gone in a year; others 2-3 years; others 4-5. Ford sites (and boosters) claim the shorter term and mention that Ford warranted all the bad ones. Non-Ford folks just say "run away".

All fixed.. naa.. I've seen plenty of old red case sos.. which were the first ones.. and the most buggy. I've seen plenty of field swaps with blue trans as well. couldn't even guess at the time frame.. except that the red bellied paint scheme went till mid 62. In mid 62 ( for the 63 year/000 models.) the blue paint scheme came out.. so if red trans 59-62 units were being swapped with later blue trans.. that means the swaps weren't happening till at least 62.. That's conjecture just based on build dates.. I've never seen any official ford service memo's detailing such. Oh.. and by t he way... many ford people also say 'run away' when looking at an sos.. etc..

Anyway, I started this thread because I was looking at a 6000. It's a nice-looking tractor and a good price but I don't think the SOS is worth fooliing with. One of the gents here advised I look at a gear-drive 5000. I think that's what I'll do. Or I'll buy the IH 460d that I was also looking at.

Go with the 5000.. good strong tractors... mine pulls a 10' mower fine. Probably do 90% of the stuff a 6000 would do just fine.. heck.. maybee 100%.. those 8spd crashboxes were practically bullet proof.. and could get you low enough to rototill in all but the poorest of conditions as long as your tiller was sized reasonably.

Thanks for your comments.

I'm guessing that's not directed at me. A FWJ would point out.. I'm way to young to know anything. Apparently the only way to know something is to have seen it first hand ( boy.. lots of history teachers gonna be out of jobs now! ).. what else am I forgetting.. hmm oh yeah.. I must be 100% totally biased so my opinions are not valid because I collect fords.. what else... hmm.. that's all i can remember wish he's start using some fresh jabs.. like maybee insult the way I was dressed.. or that I look funny... At least one of those I could 'change'..

Oh, and to be fair, While i was skeptical at the beginning of this thread about the SOS actually jumping into gear ( and had -never- heard of associated deaths ), I now stand corrected, or informed about both. If anyone has any quoteable statistics, or bookmarked search pages, or references to any in or out of print material dealing with these deaths, or the jumping gear problem.. I'd be most interested in seeing / reading about them. Ford history is ford history. good or bad.

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

No argument there..I'm not saying everything ever said or in print is true. Just look at politicians.





And they are picky on oil, filter changes and general maintenance. I'm not defending them at all. I personally doubt I would own one.. unless it had been reworked, and was a parade piece.. deffinately would invest in one as a worker. For some reason you think I'm rabidly defending them.. when I'm not.




No.. I term it rude when someone who is arguing has to slip in a personal attack. If you want to convers, fine, debate, fine.. argue.. fine.. but leave the personal remarks out..






Repititious acts. You have implied in your last message, and previous ones that someone who has 'less than a lifetime of experience can't possibly know anywhere as much as someone how does' That nifty little verbage was lifted out of a message you posted to me a few months back.. ring any bells?






I have no blind loyalty to any color.. and no color is beyond reproach. I happen to like to collect fords.. but do own plenty of other colors. My first tractor wasn't a ford. They have their problems like most any brand. I ended up settling on them for a wide variety of reasons, 1 being that they are generally under represented in shows.. and what not.. probably because many of them are still out inthe field working while many of their contemporaries are on parade duty... that's just baseless conjecture.. but seems to be true in the area I live. All the JD's and case and AC/MM's have cherry paint jobs and new tires and set in garages while if you see a ford.. it's rusty, and has a mower on it, and is parked by the barn. Another reason is the general attitudes of the owners in clubs I've been in. For the most part.. ford owners seem to be way more easygoing than say.. for instance. green owners.. who seem to be the elite snobs of he collector community. The yellow guys seem to be mostly concerned about pulling, and the orange guys generally seem to fall in line hospitality wise with t he ford people.. I considered colelcting orange.. however.. they are so scarce here you have to stand in line to get one.. thus it was not a good choice....
I've got plenty of complaints about fords.. Just looking at their design implementation and changes in some lines makes it hard to find compatible parts. Aftermarket suppliers that make 'universal' parts that fint many models don't help any, as anyone knows whos tried to change a manifold on a hundred series gasser... the repops -almost- fit good.. and the carbs almost line up perfectly... still.. 1 manifold fits the 134/172 so cheaper to stock..e tc.





As it pertains to manners and the way you treat the person you are talking to. Would you make constant remarks about age and other insults to a customer of your business simply because they disagreed with you?




I'm not downplaying a single death.. or trivializing it.. however.. the # of SOS related deaths.. do you have a number? 10? 100? 1000? ( I don't know? ).. compair that to 1 years death rate inthe farming industry.. or.. to be more fair.. compair the total # of years those deaths occured in, to a comparable # of years deaths from farming accidents.. same years.. etc.. I'll bet it's a pretty low ratio. Not insignificant for the families.. but as a statistic...it's different. Her's that chest beating again you said you don't do... Yes.. ford is my prefered brand to collect.. however i don't blindly defend their every action.. I do however like to look at things in perspective. Ford was one of the first companies to come out with some pretty nice safety features to protect operators... like tranny interlocked safety starter switches. I wonder how many people have been killed by starting their tractor from the ground while it was in gear.. I know all my other color tractor can unsafely start in gear.. unless I bypass the safety features onthe fords.. they won't. In the big scheme of things.. that has to account for something...



An unfortunate accident / failure of the machine / bad design. for all involved... can't help but think if they had turned the tractor off that might not have happened.. but then.. that's just another one of those inconvienient little safety blurbs manufacturers put in their owners manuals... ( yes.. ford has them listed in their old manuals.. ).



Youve mentioned it in a previous message, as i pointed out, and then in this last message this little bit of verbage seems to be fairly specific, and familiar sounding to what you previously wrote ( this is from your last message):



Right or wrong.. all I'm asking for is a civilized conversation / debate / argument. at the end if I'm wrong or we disagree.. who cares.. just leave the insults in the back pocket. That's all I ask. And I promise not to take it personally if you promise to stop insulting me when we converse.

Soundguy

Obiously you feel that first hand "BTDT" info is worthless and "What I don't know doesn't exist" is what makes the world go 'round.

Since I didn't "insult" you in the first place, I can't promise that you won't take everything that I say as an insult. That's YOUR issue, not mine pal.


You should seek counciling. They can do wonders nowdays. All the insults, inuendo, and feelings of persecution seem to be coming from ONE person here. The next post after the one quoted above is nothing short of ridiculous. (and VERY childish) It's also nothing short of the sort character attack you profess to be so opposed to. It's been a long week. Thanks for providing a laugh to end it with.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You should seek counciling.

Now Bill, I think a lot of people would think all of us on this site need to seek counciling for one reason or the other

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Now Bill, I think a lot of people would think all of us on this site need to seek counciling for one reason or the other

Robert, You're probably right about that. But in the case of the last 2 post's by Chris, I tried several times to read them and just couldn't control the laughter. Re-read my replies in this thread and see if you can find anything "insulting" directed at anyone in particular or him specifically. Now read his. I'm not the one exploding with anger and paranoia.

I'm just your typical tractor nut. Whatever "typical" is.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I won't get in the middle. I like both you and Chris and would like to stay on both of you two guys good sides

I do like the Ford 6000 from a collectors stand point and I know where there is a blue belly 6000 a couple towns over that hasn't moved at all since I first noticed it 10-15 years ago. My only experience with a Select-O-Speed was my old Ford 4000 and it ran smoothly. Of course there were a few years difference between my 4000 and the 6000 so I don't know much about the early SOS trannys.

 

[jfh0jfh]

...Quote: Originally Posted by jfh0
Thanks for your comments.

soundguy

I don't remember that I wrote that but I should have. Yes, thanks much for your many comments on the 6000 and on related Fords and especially on the SOS. It was good detail which is what I like.

I didn't agree with you about the jerk vs creep thing but we've exhausted that I think. I did see your point underneath it - that a non-hydro could still creep. Sure.

Anyway, thanks again and have a great weekend.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I won't get in the middle. I like both you and Chris and would like to stay on both of you two guys good sides

I do like the Ford 6000 from a collectors stand point and I know where there is a blue belly 6000 a couple towns over that hasn't moved at all since I first noticed it 10-15 years ago. My only experience with a Select-O-Speed was my old Ford 4000 and it ran smoothly. Of course there were a few years difference between my 4000 and the 6000 so I don't know much about the early SOS trannys.

I wouldn't expect anyone to get in the middle and I appologize for even bringing it up again.

Later SOS trannies were safe, sound, and quite the pleasure to operate. Initially they had their troubles. Most radical departures from "old technology" will have teething pains. I know where there's a 6000 parked that has less than 600 total hours. It was parked in '62 and the owner refused to allow it to ever be so much as started again. Sad in a way.

I'd LOVE to own a 4000SU diesel (3-cyl) w/ SOS. It would be a great hayin' tractor for me.

I went and looked at what may be my next tractor today. A 583 Massey. (70 hp, pto, MFWD, cab) I was very impressed.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

What are your plans for the 583? Adding to the brush chopping fleet or replacing an open station with a cab?

I have been looking at a lot of tractors lately. Trying to find a spraying tractor for the orchard and vineyard is not a lot of fun. Lots of dealers have new ones but only Neil Messick has been close to the price range I have been looking for on new ones but I would love to find a late model used spray rig with for a lot less money. Locally the NH dealer has a bunch of Ford and Ford/Fiat vineyard tractors but they have been beaten and abused and while the price is right I don't want to spend $10- $15k for a used tractor that I fear won't be reliable which is why I have been leaning towards new.