Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?
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powerpace
Platinum Member
Henry Fords wife never drove a gas engine car. Only drove electrics.
Over 2,000,000 Toyota Prius sold worldwide since 1997. 45mpg all day, everyday. $24,000 low end. I've had mine since 2008. 170,000 miles.
SensibleNick
Gold Member
The problem (that many people can't look past) with the Prius is the batteries, and the environmental footprint of the car is astoundingly huge before it even hits the road.
It seems like it is marketed or seen as one of the ultimate in environmentally friendly cars. This is certainly no longer true.
I'm currently driving an Opel Corsa with a 1.3l TDI engine in it. I routinely get 67mpg out if it. Battery technology needs to go a long long way before it can compete with well-designed diesel applications.
My guess is that Ford are simply ticking some sort of box like "Company must provide electric cars for market" in order to be allowed to sell other vehicles... and probably don't care that the vehicles themselves are terrible. (that's my hope.... because releasing something with such a poor range for any other reason is just daft!)
Monster5601
Platinum Member
To be fair, the electric Focus is not yet available in most markets and will not be until the end of this year, I guess Green Car Reports forgot to mention this. Yet another $40K car, 20K too much.
"By the end of 2012, Focus Electric will be available in 19 markets across the U.S.,"
2012 Ford Focus Electric To Get 110 MPGe Rating, Beating Nissan Leaf
Diamondpilot
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Never seen it advertised. Still see Volts on TV here with some college aged Asian girl touting what a great vehicle it is.
Its destiny will be failure also if it cost twice as much as a comparable gas car, has crappy range, and has issues like the volt.
Chris
Its destiny will be failure also if it cost twice as much as a comparable gas car, has crappy range, and has issues like the volt.
Chris
JimRB
Veteran Member
The problem in the US is the emission controls kill the effectiveness of a diesel. My 2003 I get 45-50 mpg. A 2011 gets in the 30's to lower 40's. Some might say more hp costs mileage but I have over 100 hp with bigger nozzles and a tune. Folks using bigger trucks suffer a similar fate. Creeping engine size and HP while gettting less mileage. I think I would like a Dodge with a Cummins 4 cylinder. I do like my 5.9 but I don't plan to haul a 13,000 pound trailer and I certainly would like another 5 mpg. We do not have the option of the VWs with small bodies and small engines. None of the other manufacturers besides BMW and Mercedes offer diesels in the US market but they do everywhere else in the world. California and New York emission regulations make a mess of worldwide products, at least products they offer elsewhere being sold inthe US.
The Haymaker
Veteran Member
Batteries have nothing to do with it. The general public has no use for a wind up, plug in, toy car.
LD1
Epic Contributor
The problem I have with the prius, civic hybrid, et al is the fact that the mileage isnt that much better than a car without batteries.
Heck, I am on my third saturn SL series. All of them were SOHC 5-speeds and ALL got 42+MPG. And were WAY cheaper and simpler than the hybrids.
And take the civic vs civic hybrid for example. And these #'s may be dated because I havent figured this with current pricing. BUT...in 2008 when we were last car shopping for the wife, comparing these two, and the milage increase and associated cost increase with the hybrid civic, and at the current gas prices of the time, we would have to drive the civic hybrid for 200,000 miles with NO PROBLEMS out of the hybrid crap JUST to break even. And even if the car did make it to 200k with no issues, we probabally wouldnt keep it that long. That was the deal breaker on hybrids for us:thumbsup: IMO, the technology just isnt there yet. Payback needs to be well under 100k for me to consider
Barnone
Silver Member
Not another electric car bashing thread?
Don't buy one if you don't like it.
Maybe they will be practical in the future???
Don't buy one if you don't like it.
Maybe they will be practical in the future???
SensibleNick
Gold Member
From my side it's not an electric-bashing thread, and I completely agree that in the future, they may be far more effective. Massive leaps in technology have been made in the past couple of decades.
I remember as a kid that my RC car had a 7.2v NiCad battery pack, and that it had a capacity of 700Mah. These days a LiPo pack of the same physical dimensions can hammer out 11.1v with a capacity of 4000Mah. For a long time now I've wanted to build an electric car, but battery lifetime and the price of effective control systems makes it non-viable for me.... at the moment.
The only bashing I'd do here is what I've already done: point out that machines like the Prius are touted to be good for the planet, when the carbon footprint of the entire car is massive, and the mileage they can effectively manage is way worse than other similar sized "non hybrid" vehicles - as LD1 points out, he's getting 42mpg in a standard car.... one that isn't weighed down with batteries.
Diesels in Sweden used to be subject to a far higher road-tax bracket than petrols... but now with lean-burn engines, better designed turbos, particle filters and so one, cars like my 67mpg toy actually have less tax levied at them because they produce so little in the way of polution. Infact.. mine's tax-free for the next 3 years.
When Electrics come down to the same price as similar sized cars, but cost significantly less to run, THEN you'll see people getting more interested - even if the range is low. Many people just need something to commute with - and for a relatively low range.
But for now, Trying to make an existing 1½ ton car "electric" seems like a token nod in the direction of "environmental" transport, and not a serious effort to make a change.
As far as "wind up toys" ... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAYrsEOxqYc]Electric Car Drag Racing | Oregon Field Guide | OPB - YouTube[/ame]
You know Haymaker.. .. people used to say Tractors were a waste of time too....
I remember as a kid that my RC car had a 7.2v NiCad battery pack, and that it had a capacity of 700Mah. These days a LiPo pack of the same physical dimensions can hammer out 11.1v with a capacity of 4000Mah. For a long time now I've wanted to build an electric car, but battery lifetime and the price of effective control systems makes it non-viable for me.... at the moment.
The only bashing I'd do here is what I've already done: point out that machines like the Prius are touted to be good for the planet, when the carbon footprint of the entire car is massive, and the mileage they can effectively manage is way worse than other similar sized "non hybrid" vehicles - as LD1 points out, he's getting 42mpg in a standard car.... one that isn't weighed down with batteries.
Diesels in Sweden used to be subject to a far higher road-tax bracket than petrols... but now with lean-burn engines, better designed turbos, particle filters and so one, cars like my 67mpg toy actually have less tax levied at them because they produce so little in the way of polution. Infact.. mine's tax-free for the next 3 years.
Actually, I was talking specifically about the Prius and its batteries. They have everything to do with it in the given context.
When Electrics come down to the same price as similar sized cars, but cost significantly less to run, THEN you'll see people getting more interested - even if the range is low. Many people just need something to commute with - and for a relatively low range.
But for now, Trying to make an existing 1½ ton car "electric" seems like a token nod in the direction of "environmental" transport, and not a serious effort to make a change.
As far as "wind up toys" ... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAYrsEOxqYc]Electric Car Drag Racing | Oregon Field Guide | OPB - YouTube[/ame]
You know Haymaker.. .. people used to say Tractors were a waste of time too....