Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[71bronco]

Well lets do some math:

The price of electricity is maybe 11 cents per Kwh.. Now some people pay more, and some less, but lets use this as an average. The effeciency of a charger, I am going to estimate at 85 percent. In other words there are some losses in the charger and wiring but it is pretty good. The Volt battery is kinda small capacity wise, it is only 16kwh. so considering the losses in charging we are going to need to pull around 19kwh from the mains to charge it back up. so 19kwh X $.11 = $2.09 in charging costs.. and that looks pretty good. Now just how far that takes us down the road compared to what some of you claim to get in your conventional cars is up for a lot of debate. some say they only got 23 miles on the volt, some say about 50.. Nick claims to get 67 miles per gallon in a diesel econobox, and LD1 claims to get 42mpg in something else. Diesel here now is about $4 per gallon, and regular unleaded is about $3.59 so the $2.09 for 23 miles is not so good against the $3.59 gas at 42mpg or the $4.00 diesel at 67 mpg.. but over here I don't know of any diesel cars getting 67 mpg with our pollution standards. but let's just say the cost of the electric fill up is half of the cost of the fuel fill for the same distance traveled.. as LD1 points out now that extra $20,000 for the car is going to take even longer to pay off..like past the lifetime of the car and then some... and that My friends is why they are not selling..as most people with a calculator can figure this out. All we have to do is solve this range/cost of battery thing and we will all be driving an electric car. And then we will all be in big trouble while we wait for the electric infastructure to be rebuilt, That will not support us all charging our cars with 240 volt high current loads and for the coal fired power plants to be changed over to nuclear to keep the air clean, and for a place found for the deposit of the spent nuclear fuel.... and and and.. oh heck why don't we just run them on oil? YOU want an electric car?... buy one! our infastructure will certainly support a limited number of people with them.James K0UA

Just don't tell the treehuggers that they are driving COAL or NUCLEAR powered cars :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Jeff

 

[k0ua]

Just don't tell the treehuggers that they are driving COAL or NUCLEAR powered cars :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Jeff

Well they certainly will be if they drive an electric car, Its gotta run on something, Coal, nuclear, Or OIL products... OMG. some might get lucky and get some power from wind or a little solar in some parts of the country. The tidal power thing was killed off some time back. and there is only a few geothermal places in our country. Yep chances are it will be something "evil" for the majority of us.

James K0UA

 

[dodge man]

I think they have some kind of comparision number on electric cars. Like a 100 would be sort of like having a gas car that got 100 miles per gallon. But I'm not sure exactly how that number works? Does anybody know for sure?

 

[Barnone]

"You know Haymaker.. .. people used to say Tractors were a waste of time too.... "
I case you missed it.:thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

oh heck why don't we just run them on oil? YOU want an electric car?... buy one! our infastructure will certainly support a limited number of people with them.

James K0UA

Yea, if ya stop and think about it, this is how an electric car works:

Burn fossil fuel to make steam....
....Take steam and turn big turbine....
....Big turbine turns generator to make electricity......
....elctricity travels thousands of miles of wire to your house....
....said electricity is converted with charger to DC to charge a battery....
....battery now drives the car a limited distance....

Isnt it a lot simpler to just burn the fossil fuel to power the car??? I am sure it is a lot greener in the long run despite what anyone says.

 

[Ford tractor]

Yea, if ya stop and think about it, this is how an electric car works:

Burn fossil fuel to make steam....
....Take steam and turn big turbine....
....Big turbine turns generator to make electricity......
....elctricity travels thousands of miles of wire to your house....
....said electricity is converted with charger to DC to charge a battery....
....battery now drives the car a limited distance....

Isnt it a lot simpler to just burn the fossil fuel to power the car??? I am sure it is a lot greener in the long run despite what anyone says.

You are correct sir. Electric cars need the motive energy to change form from solid to heat, to pressure to rotational to electric, to chemical to electric then finally to rotational. Every phase change is at best 85% efficient and many are 50%. Do the math on how much coal potential energy is needed to get that final form!

 

[B7510HSD]

From my side it's not an electric-bashing thread, and I completely agree that in the future, they may be far more effective. Massive leaps in technology have been made in the past couple of decades.

I remember as a kid that my RC car had a 7.2v NiCad battery pack, and that it had a capacity of 700Mah. These days a LiPo pack of the same physical dimensions can hammer out 11.1v with a capacity of 4000Mah. For a long time now I've wanted to build an electric car, but battery lifetime and the price of effective control systems makes it non-viable for me.... at the moment.

The only bashing I'd do here is what I've already done: point out that machines like the Prius are touted to be good for the planet, when the carbon footprint of the entire car is massive, and the mileage they can effectively manage is way worse than other similar sized "non hybrid" vehicles - as LD1 points out, he's getting 42mpg in a standard car.... one that isn't weighed down with batteries.

Diesels in Sweden used to be subject to a far higher road-tax bracket than petrols... but now with lean-burn engines, better designed turbos, particle filters and so one, cars like my 67mpg toy actually have less tax levied at them because they produce so little in the way of polution. Infact.. mine's tax-free for the next 3 years.

Actually, I was talking specifically about the Prius and its batteries. They have everything to do with it in the given context.
When Electrics come down to the same price as similar sized cars, but cost significantly less to run, THEN you'll see people getting more interested - even if the range is low. Many people just need something to commute with - and for a relatively low range.
But for now, Trying to make an existing 1ｽ ton car "electric" seems like a token nod in the direction of "environmental" transport, and not a serious effort to make a change.

As far as "wind up toys" ... Electric Car Drag Racing | Oregon Field Guide | OPB - YouTube

You know Haymaker.. .. people used to say Tractors were a waste of time too....

John does a good job with that old car doesn't he!! :thumbsup:

 

[greasemonkeyok]

'03 VW TDI, driven 625 miles since I last filled up. Probably will have to fill it up again in the next few days.

Oh yeah, I had to purchase a new battery a couple of years ago - $120.00.

As for the Prius, from the limited number of drivers I know they should have named it the Toyota Pious. But I'm certain none of the TBN types fit that category.

 

[powerpace]

'03 VW TDI, driven 625 miles since I last filled up. Probably will have to fill it up again in the next few days.

Oh yeah, I had to purchase a new battery a couple of years ago - $120.00.

As for the Prius, from the limited number of drivers I know they should have named it the Toyota Pious. But I'm certain none of the TBN types fit that category.

The Prius is a proven vehicle with over 2,000,000 worldwide including 1,000,000 in the U.S. since 1997.

2008 Prius. Wife drives 150 miles round trip to work three times per week. 45 to 50 MPG. per tank. 450 mile per tank more than once. Worst gas mileage was 38 MPG. 170,000 miles on it. Drives better than a Civic. I drive fast on the freeway. Been across the U.S. twice. Five adults with their baggage more than once.
When this Prius hits 200,000 miles we will buy another and keep the 2008.

 

[ultrarunner]

Is there some sort of incentive/tax break for companies who offer and electric/hybrid variant in the US? ... These things don't exist here - and much like you're experiencing, with the prices the way they are, they'd sink like a rock in the market-place. There has to be a reason they make them...

Yes... we have a winner!

California mandates a percentage of vehicles sold must be zero emission and the date is fast approaching...

So far, the electric is the only real technology in the game.

Also, the express car pool lanes in urban areas can be accesses by solo drivers when they have a zero emission or till recently a very low emission vehicle.

Many commuters bought hybrids because of the savings in commute time and bridge tolls...

California sees itself as a trend setter... politicians say as California goes so goes the nation...

California has had unleaded fuel and catalytic converters since the early 70's...