Ford releases fuel numbers for the new F-150

[jejeosborne]

I asked Diamond Pilot, not you.

But since you tried to jump in and post this article I really dont' see anything other than one engineer for Ford making that claim. Pretty easy to see why he has an incentive to say that. It's hardly legitimate unbiased proof that the aluminum panels are stronger.

You are correct I quoted to wrong post. That was for the proof you asked from me. Phone app sometimes displays things differently than computer.

 

[jejeosborne]

This is so easy. You do realize people can go back and read your posts right?

Here is another one of your classics where you explained why Ford pickups cost less to insure than other pickups. Can you show us that simple math? Laffin.

BTW, where did you go to college?

I went to a state University in Illinois. Probably the same University that those who set insurance rates went to.

 

[roadhunter]

The Truth. So Ford wants us to believe that by giving every dealership $10,000 for training and equipment they will hopefully keep the repair and insurance costs of the aluminum truck competitive with the steel truck. So obviously this is a concern they are acknowledging. It all sounds good but who do you think is going to pick up the tab for giving every dealer $10,000? People who buy Ford vehicles.

Do we really think that a one time $10,000 check to a dealership will magically make it cost the same to repair an aluminum Ford compared to a steel Ford forever? Obviously it might help in some ways but it doesn't magically make it cost the same to repair the different vehicles. There are still real differences and real costs associated. Sounds like at best they are claiming the repair costs and insurance costs will be competitive but obviously more. The real question is how much more. The other thing that gets overlooked is you will be required to have your vehicle repaired at the dealership instead of being able to go to private body shops who didn't' get the magic $10,000 check from Ford.

Ford Backs Dealers With Plan for Repairing Aluminum Panels on 2015 F-150 | Edmunds.com

DEARBORN, Michigan Ford has unveiled a collision repair program for dealers and owners of body shops when it comes to fixing the aluminum body panels on the 2015 Ford F-150, a move that should reassure car shoppers, the company told Edmunds.

Ford will subsidize 20 percent or up to $10,000 for training and equipment at U.S. dealerships to repair the truck's aluminum panels.

Because of the program, "the insurance costs and repair costs to consumers will be competitive with the current trucks," said Mike Levine, a Ford spokesman, in a phone conversation on Monday.

 

[roadhunter]

I went to a state University in Illinois. Probably the same University that those who set insurance rates went to.

Really? I jut love it when you throw out crazy claims like this. So the people who set insurance rates in the US went to a state university in Illinois? So they probably know that a vehicle that uses different materials for body panels that cost more up front and costs more to repair will likely cost more to insure right?

That is probably why according to that article Ford is trying to keep the insurance costs on the aluminum f-150 competitive with the steel version by spending millions in training and equipment for it's dealership ran body shops to keep those increased repair costs to a minimum. It's really not that difficult of a concept to understand if you just take off your Ford blue colored glasses for a moment.

 

[jejeosborne]

Really? I jut love it when you throw out crazy claims like this. So the people who set insurance rates in the US went to a state university in Illinois? So they probably know that a vehicle that uses different materials for body panels that cost more up front and costs more to repair will likely cost more to insure right?

That is probably why according to that article Ford is trying to keep the insurance costs on the aluminum f-150 competitive with the steel version by spending millions in training and equipment for it's dealership ran body shops to keep those increased repair costs to a minimum. It's really not that difficult of a concept to understand if you just take off your Ford blue colored glasses for a moment.

I was referring to Diamondpilots post showing insurance rates to be roughly the same with a little humor added in. In response to your goofy questioning the school I attended.

I'm guessing you don't like the idea of an aluminum truck.....? Lol
No need to get upset about the claim of being more resistant to dents and potentially not having a significantly different insurance rate. This is great news and reason for rejoice. #buzzkill

 

[dodge man]

What college in Illinois? Is it ISU in Bloomington\Normal? If it is its very possible that a lot of the people for State Farm went to school there since their headquarters is there also.

There is little doubt in my mind it will cost more to fix the new Fords, but I would think after a few years the cost would balance out and be close to the steel ones. It will take a few years for that to sort itself out.

The big problem I have is with all talk about aluminum, the fuel mileage isn't that much better. I know a 1 or 2 mpg improvement is a big deal but was it worth the extra effort and cost?

 

[jejeosborne]

What college in Illinois? Is it ISU in Bloomington\Normal? If it is its very possible that a lot of the people for State Farm went to school there since their headquarters is there also.

There is little doubt in my mind it will cost more to fix the new Fords, but I would think after a few years the cost would balance out and be close to the steel ones. It will take a few years for that to sort itself out.

The big problem I have is with all talk about aluminum, the fuel mileage isn't that much better. I know a 1 or 2 mpg improvement is a big deal but was it worth the extra effort and cost?

Actually it was southern Illinois but I grew up around Bloomington and am well aware of state Farm headquarters being there. I was just trying to be funny with that statement but some people have no sense of humor. I choose Carbondale at that time because I was an aviation student the first two years. Many friends attended the local college though. Bloomington also had a Saturn plant that may have made composite cars but that will stir the pot more.

 

[roadhunter]

I was referring to Diamondpilots post showing insurance rates to be roughly the same with a little humor added in. In response to your goofy questioning the school I attended.

I'm guessing you don't like the idea of an aluminum truck.....? Lol

I have no problem with aluminum trucks.
But when people tell me that they dont' cost more to produce and they dont' cost more to repair I get skeptical.
When people tell me it is stronger than a steel body I get skeptical.
When people tell me this is a fact but they can't produce any proof I get skeptical.

So then I do some research and as it turns out it does cost more to make an aluminum hood compared to a steel hood, this was confirmed by Ford body panel pricing. Then I read about how it costs more to fix aluminum panels and requires additional training and equipment to try and keep costs close to those of repairing steel vehicles. Then I read about how Ford is spending $10,00 for every dealership body shop to keep repair costs down so the cost to insure these trucks stays at least competitive with steel trucks. So after looking at the information available and comparing it to what folks like you, DP, and Tom have told us I came to a conclusion.

Aluminum costs more than steel.
Aluminum body panels require thicker material to achieve the same impact resistance as steel.
If it costs more up front and you need more of it I believe the aluminum body panels will cost substantially more.
I believe it will cost more to repair aluminum body panels than steel for a variety of reasons. Therefore I believe it will cost more to insure aluminum vehicles than it will for steel vehicles.


You do the exact same thing on the Dodge threads when you point out the increased costs of Diesel that the eco diesel burns compared to the cost of gas that the ecoboost burns. And it's true. So now I am doing the same thing back to you because its' true that aluminum is more expensive than steel just like tis' true that diesel costs more than gas. But instead of just admitting it's true you have been trying to make us believe differently. But any reasonable person can see that diesel costs more than gas and aluminum body panels cost more to make/insure/and repair than steel body panels. But you seem to think you can fool us for some reason so you keep arguing.

 

[dodge man]

Actually it was southern Illinois but I grew up around Bloomington and am well aware of state Farm headquarters being there. I was just trying to be funny with that statement but some people have no sense of humor. I choose Carbondale at that time because I was an aviation student the first two years. Many friends attended the local college though. Bloomington also had a Saturn plant that may have made composite cars but that will stir the pot more.

Small world, I graduated from SIU in 1984. What year did you graduate? I know the aviation program is big there. We to a visit with my son and daughter about 2 months ago. I'm pretty sure she will go there for architecture. My son looked at the aviation program. I was about ready to quit my job and go back to school, it looked fun to me but he showed no interest. I think he just thought it would be cool to be a helicopter pilot.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Why is the Ford cheaper to insure than other brands?

I just love claims like this. Aluminum body but costs less to repair?? makes lots of sense.

Not sure why it's cheaper. Crash test results, side impact, theft rates, ect??? Who knows. Maybe it's just the sheer number of them.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Do I have to spoon feed you everything? I said that Ford claims them to be stronger and you have disputed it. Wanting to see your test results that counter theirs.

Don't battle him. He will win with his year's of experience.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

I asked Diamond Pilot, not you.

But since you tried to jump in and post this article I really dont' see anything other than one engineer for Ford making that claim. Pretty easy to see why he has an incentive to say that. It's hardly legitimate unbiased proof that the aluminum panels are stronger.

You can ask all you want. I'm not wasting my time.

Chris

 

[jejeosborne]

Small world, I graduated from SIU in 1984. What year did you graduate? I know the aviation program is big there. We to a visit with my son and daughter about 2 months ago. I'm pretty sure she will go there for architecture. My son looked at the aviation program. I was about ready to quit my job and go back to school, it looked fun to me but he showed no interest. I think he just thought it would be cool to be a helicopter pilot.

I graduated in 1991. Their new transportation school at the airport is pretty nice looking. It was nice even before the new facility. I toured with my daughter a couple years ago and was disappointed with the campus. Showed the typical lack of funding that most of the bankrupt state is showing. The engineering buildings looked just like they did when I went. Dark and gloomy. Then I learn they are going to tear down the towers and Thompson woods was destroyed in a tornado. Sad visit for me but it would be fun. My daughter's boyfriend goes there so I can relive some experiences through him.

 

[jejeosborne]

I have no problem with aluminum trucks.
But when people tell me that they dont' cost more to produce and they dont' cost more to repair I get skeptical.
When people tell me it is stronger than a steel body I get skeptical.
When people tell me this is a fact but they can't produce any proof I get skeptical.

I never said they don't cost more to produce!

I never said they didn't cost more to repair!

I never said the aluninum panel was stronger, Ford did!

I agree it may cost more to insure!

Why the rant over things we agree on?

As far as the ecodiesel is concerned, it is true, I don't see why someone would want to spend more per mile with reduced performance. Just my opinion. If you have money to burn, go get one.

 

[KennyG]

I hate to insert myself into a great spat like this, but the "we use steel for roofs and aluminum for soffits" argument caught my eye. Is anyone else old enough to remember when we used galvanized metal for cheap roofs but aluminum if we could afford it. The reason, of course, was that no steel roof was really corrosion resistance. A slightly heavier aluminum was. Now, the advances in coating of steel panels have eliminated the need for aluminum.

Comparing an auto body aluminum to house trim isn't very informative. I think the only people who could really know at this time how dent resistant the new F-150 will be would be Ford. I hope it works out well. My Dodge certainly has a few hail dents and my next truck will probably be an F-150.

 

[roadhunter]

I hate to insert myself into a great spat like this, but the "we use steel for roofs and aluminum for soffits" argument caught my eye. Is anyone else old enough to remember when we used galvanized metal for cheap roofs but aluminum if we could afford it. The reason, of course, was that no steel roof was really corrosion resistance. A slightly heavier aluminum was. Now, the advances in coating of steel panels have eliminated the need for aluminum.

Comparing an auto body aluminum to house trim isn't very informative. I think the only people who could really know at this time how dent resistant the new F-150 will be would be Ford. I hope it works out well. My Dodge certainly has a few hail dents and my next truck will probably be an F-150.

Can't say I have ever seen an aluminum roof. But they do make aluminum soffit. wonder why? Impact resistance. That is why Ford has indicated they are adding more material to strengthen the aluminum panel for hail resistance.

The properties of sheet aluminum are well known at this time by more than just Ford engineers. Plenty of companies use aluminum sheet metal for different applications and have been doing so for many years. I'm sure that by adding material they can give it more strength but also with additional costs. Always going to be a tradeoff. Anybody who tells you that aluminum body panels are lighter, cost the same or less to make, cost the same or less to insure, cost the same or less to repair, etc.. are simply not being realistic and ignoring the reality of the material. Glad we have gotten back to reality with this discussion.

 

[Ford850]

I think some are upset about aluminum trucks because it will raise the price of aluminum, and they'll be spending more on their aluminum foil hats.

 

[mikehaugen]

I think some are upset about aluminum trucks because it will raise the price of aluminum, and they'll be spending more on their aluminum foil hats.

Hey, we recycle our cans... I guess this could be a good thing for us. Maybe be able to afford one someday!

 

[Ford850]

Hey, we recycle our cans... I guess this could be a good thing for us. Maybe be able to afford one someday!

Yeah I have been watching the scrap yard, waiting for that huge scrap aluminum price increase that was predicted due to Ford "locking up all the aluminum" in contracts. The price here hasn't changed in 6 months. Maybe when GM and Fiat start building aluminum trucks I'll be able sell my can accumulation and retire.

 

[Msamt]

Nice....