Framing help needed.

[richinok]

Hey guys how's everyone doing. I need some help with building a 40x40 weld up metal shop. I got quotes from several people and decided heck I may as well put it up myself and use some of the labor costs to by a new tractor. I am hiring out the cement work and will be using weld up plates in the cement for the columns using 3x3 square 11 ga set on 10' centers.

I already have the trusses built but need help on the framing of the walls. I have never done this and was wondering how you guys would go about it. How would you set the posts and keep everything plumb and square. Would you frame a 10 foot section as you go, like build the front wall across then go down the sides? Keeping things square is the biggest worry I have since I have never famed anything. Thanks

 

[crbr]

Shoot this guy a PM.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/102976-rebuilding-my-shack.html

 

[tallyho8]

Shoot this guy a PM.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/102976-rebuilding-my-shack.html

I sure appreciate your confidence in my abilities but I am not a master craftsman, I am just a jack-of-all-trades. Eddie Walker would be the best person to ask.

 

[toolaholic]

This My trade for 45 years ,but I need a pix of the detail or Manuf. Spec.
We really need more info.

 

[richinok]

lol,i am the manufacturer. The columns will be made out of 3x3 11 ga. square tubing 12' high, 10 foot on center. There will be a 3x3 header running on top of the columns.

The trusses are made out of 3"x2" 11ga. rectangle tubing. The trusses will set on top of the header on top of each column, spanning across the open floor space. The trusses are engineered and I have a stamped drawing for my city permits.

My wall perlins will be 3"x1 1/2" 16ga. rectangle tubing spaced out at 48". The roof perlins will use the 3"x1 1/2" 16ga. retcangle tubing. Not sure on the spacing. It will have 1 10x10 overhead door and one 3x7 walk through.

The slab is gonna be your basic ( for Oklahoma) 4" slab on 12" x 30" deep piers with an 1 1/2 sheet ledge around the edges with 6x6 3/8" weld in plates.

Since I am using 20 foot pieces for the header should I set my header on top of 3 of the columns, square everything up, tack everything up and move on to the next three columns with the 20 header. This is my dilemma, not sure how to start the wall sections while keeping everything in line and square.

I know it sounds like alittle overkill with some of the material but prices in Oklahoma arent that high and we do get alot of high winds and sometimes twisters.

 

[LarryD]

Are you simply trying to find the point for the column bases to sit square?

I would run a string line and mark the 6x6 plates for one wall. Then run a string line 90º and mark the plates using a tape for the diagonal,
A²+B²=C².
40²+40²=3200, √=56.56 should be close enough IF your true inside dimensions are 40x40. Plumb should follow one the first column is braced.

 

[rural2]

Doesn't sound like the slab is poured yet? Basically what LarryD said. Control lines should have already been established to place the footings/piers/weld plates? If not, you better hurry up and establish/re-stablish control with batter boards or marking your weld plates and double check everything. Establish inside or outside column dimension and square up as already mentioned or measuring a diagonal. Place the four corner columns, plumb and brace. All other exterior columns can probably be placed using the four corner columns and string lines, brace as needed. Pretty simple really, just takes time and a couple helpers.
BTW, you gonna be able to get concrete trucks in there for the slab after the exterior walls and trusses are in place?

The slab is gonna be your basic ( for Oklahoma) 4" slab on 12" x 30" deep piers with an 1 1/2 sheet ledge around the edges with 6x6 3/8" weld in plates.
Since I am using 20 foot pieces for the header should I set my header on top of 3 of the columns, square everything up, tack everything up and move on to the next three columns with the 20 header. This is my dilemma, not sure how to start the wall sections while keeping everything in line and square.

 

[richinok]

Sorry guys I missed this detail. Slab is already finished with the plates in the crete. All I have to do is show up and start setting my columns.

Rural2 I think your answer was what I was thinking but wasnt positive and needed some one to help me see it. I have the time and some help, 16 year old son that doesnt know what hes about to be used for lol.

How does this sound?- Set a corner column. Plumb. Then tack in place and brace or brace then tack it in place. Move to the next corner and repeat until all corner posts are up.
Then stretch a string line between each corner post. Then set each wall column, plumb, then tack in place until all of them are set.
Then set my header on top of the columns, making sure everything is square and plumb then tack in place until there is a header running all the way around the perimeter. Then go back and weld up all the joints.

Any thoughts?

 

[khd]

Sorry guys I missed this detail. Slab is already finished with the plates in the crete. All I have to do is show up and start setting my columns.

Rural2 I think your answer was what I was thinking but wasnt positive and needed some one to help me see it. I have the time and some help, 16 year old son that doesnt know what hes about to be used for lol.

How does this sound?- Set a corner column. Plumb. Then tack in place and brace or brace then tack it in place. Move to the next corner and repeat until all corner posts are up.
Then stretch a string line between each corner post. Then set each wall column, plumb, then tack in place until all of them are set.
Then set my header on top of the columns, making sure everything is square and plumb then tack in place until there is a header running all the way around the perimeter. Then go back and weld up all the joints.

Any thoughts?

I'd almost think that you might want to consider pre-assembling sections and then standing them up. This way each section can be set in a "jig" for assembly guaranteeing same size and squareness. Two posts, header and bottom strap, weld stand. Never done a steel frame building before but in my mind I see the inflexibility of steel and try to imagine making an adjustment to something once you've committed to it, i.e. two posts across from each other not being directly in-line with each other. Just my thoughts.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[richinok]

I wondered about that also. I could do them in 10' sections in my garage with a mig and then transport them to the slab. These are good ideas and what I was looking for.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I don't understand your timidity. With the slab done and the weld plates in place it's time to get after it. It isn't going to do itself.

What I'd do is visually verify the straightness along with squareness of the sheet ledge. You can use a string but you always check out the string with a look, right?

If the forms were done right and the sheet ledge lines are correct then it's nothing but a thing. Depending on how you're going to attach your sheets, purlins in between the posts or on the face of the posts, I'd line up accordingly along the sheet line and start welding in posts. I'd pick one end to measure off of for post spacing and then pull off of the ledge for the other direction. Plumb up the post and weld that puppy in. When all the posts are up I'd do a top plate and then do the trusses.

I stick build with steel sometimes. What has simplified this for me is the new steel cutting steel blades for circular saws. I can do radical compound angle cuts accurate enough to weld them up three hundred and sixty degrees. I'm attaching some photos of a gazebo I just left for the wood guys to cover. It's about twenty one foot in diameter. The steel is all four by four eleven gauge and I did it all by myself. If you want to have fun grab a twenty one foot piece of four by four eleven gauge and place it on top of two posts ten feet high.

 

[rural2]

Sounds like a plan my man. Slabs in place, a little pre-fab work and shazam!
Wether the pre-fab work is done on site or not...

How does this sound?- Set a corner column. Plumb. Then tack in place and brace or brace then tack it in place. Move to the next corner and repeat until all corner posts are up.
Then stretch a string line between each corner post. Then set each wall column, plumb, then tack in place until all of them are set.
Then set my header on top of the columns, making sure everything is square and plumb then tack in place until there is a header running all the way around the perimeter. Then go back and weld up all the joints.Any thoughts?

 

[richinok]

Hey wroughtn harv, I thought you would give me some tips and I do thank you and the other guys for the tips. I am a little timid because everytime I have built something out of wood it looks like it shouldn't have been built. Wood is harder for me to fix cause i cant replace wood as easily as I can with metal when i screw up.

Okay I have a game plan and will take lots of pics with the process and start a new thread in a few days. I have never done this so it will be fun. Hopefully with the labor savings I can put a good chunk down on a JD 2305, 2320, or a 2520, thats a whole other problem that I dont have an answer for yet.

 

[Defective]

Cool! Harv's showin' off again...

Rich, Don't lett it scare ya. Get the first one up square, plumb & where you want it, then take your time & measure everything from there. Before you know it, you'll be ready to dry it in.

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

Rich - one small piece of advice.
Don't use string.
Use electric fence wire - it doesn't sag as much and won't really deflect in "light breezes" under 30 mph.

good luck!

 

[richinok]

thanks for the tips guys. i am not gonna get to start on it as soon as i thought. my wifes 74 year old dad fell and broke his hip and is having other complications. i will post up again in a few days and will start a new thread on the shop.