freewheeling PTO

AndyG · May 10, 2006

Is there a way to disengage the PTO and the PTO brake at the same time? I want to be able to grab the PTO shaft and rotate it so that it lines up with the implement shaft that I am trying to attach! Of course, I will be doing this with the engine turned off! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

CJ4 · May 10, 2006

Boy i don't know but I sure do have the same question!! I have a heck of a time hooking up my brush hog on this new tractor......can hardly turn the drive shaft on the hog and the pto shaft seems locked as well. I just can't believe you should have to struggle so hard to accomplish this. Maybe i'm just a ding-dong but i'm interested in some answers here too.....

jinman · May 10, 2006

I think you can do it if you have a mid-PTO. But if not, you can't. You have to turn the implement. Once the PTO brake sets, it won't budge. I just raise my rotary cutter or tiller or other PTO driven implement with the 3PH so I can turn them by hand. If you have a problem, you might try a big screwdriver thru the PTO u-joint and use it for leverage.

PineRidge · May 10, 2006

I think Jim's right on. When attaching the RFM I find it easier to pull the belt cover so I can give the belt a slight tug to line up the splines. While the cover is off, why not lube the mower deck spindles.

farmacist · May 10, 2006

Tractor supply or your friendly tractor store will sell you a overrunning coupler for $60.00 which attaches to your PTO, I leave mine on all the time. This solves 2 problems for you. 1- you can then turn the ratcheted PTO extension backward to get it to line up with any spline position. 2- It will save your PTO brake because when you shut down your PTO too quickly the overrunning coupler will ratchet (free wheel) and allow your implement to slow down in its own time. Without one of these you can damage your PTO brake when using an implement such as a baler or brushhog if you forget to SLOWLY pull your PTO lever back. You need the model for a 1 3/8 spline and it will extend your PTO out by 3". try it, you will like it. Frank

Propertymaint · May 10, 2006

I don't know if I understand your question but with the engine off I set the rear pto selector gear lever to the disengaged position (along with the pto clutch in the disengaged position) and the pto shaft moves freely to line up the implement shaft. If the pto selector is in gear even though the pto clutch is disengaged the pto brake will remain on, but as soon as I take the rear pto selector out of gear, the shaft spins freely. I figured this out after I almost busted my wrist hooking up the chipper one day. Just ran out and tried it to be sure I was giving the correct lever info. Give it a try.

Propertymaint · May 10, 2006

I agree, the over run coupler is a great add on. I use one with the chipper because the flywheel takes a long time to wind down. I don't tend to use one with the mower , I just slow the tractor engine to an idle and wait for the mower to slow down before I disengage the pto clutch. I like having the option of stopping the mower quick if I have to.

daTeacha · May 10, 2006

This business of PTO brake is totally new to me. I haven't used the PTO on my hst DX29 to find out, but the b7100 gear didn't seem to have anything of the sort. There was a 3 speed control for the PTO, and it engaged or disengaged with the same clutch that engaged the tranny. When I took it out of gear, the blades just slowly stopped. If I wanted them to stop in a hurry, I just dropped the hog onto the ground and let friction stop it. Never thought about stopping it in a hurry while it was in the air.

My clutch on the hst DX29 engages whatever range you are in. Clutch in, tractor doesn't move. I presume it also controls the power to the PTOs. When I get around to bush hogging, how's it going to work? When does the PTO brake engage, if I have one? How suddenly will it stop the shaft from moving? Is it a real brake or just a basic dog clutch that could break off if engaged too suddenly??

I'm totally clueless here, guys, so be merciful. I'm thinking that if I'm out mowing with the bushhog, it will be engine driven whenever the lever is engaged and the clutch pedal is not depressed. If I want to keep moving but without the mower working, I'll just need to move the lever to neutral and let it wind down. Will the blades be driven if the tractor is stopped and the clutch is out, either in neutral or one of the drive ranges? Will it mow when backing? Will I be able to stop, wind up the hog, lift it, back it over a big multiflora, and lower the hog while grinding the offending bush into chips? Like I said, I have a major ignorance thing going here right now.

rambler · May 11, 2006

I'm not familiar with your tractor model.

Does it have a 2-stage clutch, an independent mechanical pto, or an independent hyd pto?

The 2 types of independent your clutch will have no effect on the pto. The pto lever is the only thing that will ever affect the pto.

The 2-stage type generally don't have a pto brake, so don't think this is what you have? Push the clutch in 1'2 way, & the tractor stops moving. Push it in all the way, & the pto stops moving as well.

The independents with the pto brake are good in some ways, but if they are abrupt, sudden on sudden off as many hyd especially) are - it can be very hard on the equipment, esp heavy loads like brush hogs. Best to start & stop them with the engine near idle, if you can.

Your 7100 had no pto brake, my BiL has one. His did not have a live pto at all, any time you pushed in the clutch, the pto as well as the tranny was disegaged.

Since I see you are talking about a hydrostatic newer tractor - you likey have an independent hyd controled pto, where only the pto lever itself is used to control it? Your 'clutch' won't have any effect......

But again, I'm not familiar with your tractor, or hydrostats for that matter, so ......

--->Paul

daTeacha · May 11, 2006

Thanks Paul. This is my first "real" hst, the other one being an early 70's cub cadet.

I know the clutch disengages the hst, so am presuming it will also disengage the PTO. It's only one stage based on pedal pressure. The manual says the PTO is "Transmission Single Clutch" whereas the gear model is "Live Dual Clutch".

The shaft will apparently turn when everything is in neutral and the engine off, since the hookup instructions say to wait until it stops before removing the cap. There is no mention of a brake or anything about shutting down the PTO driven implement.

PineRidge · May 11, 2006

Andy the good news is that if you use a PTO operated implement like a finish mower and then disconnect it from the tractor as long as you haven't spun the PTO the splines will match up the next time that you reconnect the mower again.

DocHeb · May 11, 2006

You have a mid-PTO. If the tractor does not have a mid-PTO, there is only one lever - the PTO clutch lever. When the PTO lever is in the off position the PTO shaft is held firmly in place by the PTO brake . If you are able to turn your shaft freely (and there isn't a mid-PTO), the PTO brake is malfunctioning.

AndyG · May 11, 2006

I kinda wish that my PTO brake would malfunction. I'm not quite sure what the point of having a PTO brake is anyway. It does a good job of making me cuss! Maybe that is what it is for.

Propertymaint · May 11, 2006

I just re-read Jinman's post. My TC40D does have both the rear and mid pto's. Mine has 4 levers on the left fender - mid PTO lever, Rear PTO lever, PTO engagement lever and the 4wd lever. If your tractor only has the rear PTO does that mean there is only one PTO lever (PTO engagement) on the left fender (besides the 4wd lever)? Glad I got the mid PTO option. Actually five levers on the left fender - I forgot about the range lever!

kensfarm · May 11, 2006

( I kinda wish that my PTO brake would malfunction. )

Yep.. once the PTO brake is broken.. you can turn the shaft by hand.. mine is. But.. the PTO shaft will spin even when not engaged.. now I always have to turn the engine off to hook/un-hook an implement.

AndyG · May 11, 2006

( I just re-read Jinman's post. My TC40D does have both the rear and mid pto's. Mine has 4 levers on the left fender - mid PTO lever, Rear PTO lever, PTO engagement lever and the 4wd lever. If your tractor only has the rear PTO does that mean there is only one PTO lever (PTO engagement) on the left fender (besides the 4wd lever)? Glad I got the mid PTO option. )
I only have the rear PTO because my tractor has super steer. The left fender has the range, PTO, and 4wd levers.

jinman · May 11, 2006

Andy, considering all you've said, I think you'd be a lot happier with that overrunning clutch. They are only about $50 or thereabouts at TSC. You'll be able to rotate it to any position and never have to worry about the PTO brake except when you engage your PTO. Lower the engine RPM to about 1200 and slowly engage the PTO for best results. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Patti · May 13, 2006

Hi ~
Newbie here, hope this isn't a "guys only" forum and that I'm asking this in the right thread (from reading, sounds like I could have a PTO problem).
My friend borrowed my 1996 New Holland FWD 1715 diesel and used the PTO (first time the PTO was ever used) with a post hole auger (which they said didn't work very well). Now there is no power to the drive wheels - it only "crawls" in low range and no drive at all in mid/high range. I "think" the clutch is OK, the bucket and 3-point lift are OK.
I'm getting too old to do major mechanical work myself but am fairly adept at troubleshooting if I have some guidelines to things to try/look for. This tractor is my lifeline to staying independent on my little ranch - I usually have someone from the dealer come out and service it once a year - but they are saying major clutch work in the shop and it will cost a small fortune to get it just hauled in. I'm hoping it's something simple I've overlooked (and I'd rather spend the $$ to buy my own auger to put up some fence).
Thanks a bunch - and please redirect me if this should go on a different thread. (I've also posted this on some "Ford Tractor sites, but you guys sound like you know what you're doing.)

Patti in AZ
(with 4 horses, 2 dogs and getting tired of hauling hay by wheelbarrow)

jinman · May 14, 2006

( ...from reading, sounds like I could have a PTO problem). )

Patti, welcome to the forum. This is definitely not an all-male forum; although, you will hear a lot of us joking about tractors being "man's work" and that we should keep our wives off of them so they think we are working instead of having fun. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'm afraid from your description that your tractor does indeed have a slipping clutch. I would think there should be an adjustment for the clutch and you might get by with only that, but I'm not an expert on your tractor type and how the clutch is actuated. I'm just familiar enough with clutches to say that all I've ever seen had some type of adjustment in the rod going from the pedal to the clutch throw-out bearing (release mechanism).

If your clutch was slipping, it surely would have been worn more by trying to use a PTO implement. I would say it's either in need of replacement or adjustment for sure. I can't think of anything else on a gear tractor that would cause the symptoms you describe. Sorry...it's time for some clutch work. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Patti · May 14, 2006

( Sorry...it's time for some clutch work. )

Thanks Jim ~
I just got a service manual, so I'll see if I can give clutch adjustment a go - if it doesn't help I'll bite the bullet and find a way to haul it in.

Been reading the safety threads - great reminders especially as if I did have a wreck, only my 4-legged kids would be around to help (and I promise I won't let on how sensitive you guys really are /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Patti in AZ
4 horses, 2 dogs and lots of "stuff" needs hauling