From Grass to Driveway

RichNJ · Oct 11, 2001

I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of the topsoil. Just put it in a big pile and you'll be glad you did later. Pile it up so yau can get on top of it later with you tractor. There is always a need to fill in some low spots. Maybe regrade around the house. Put up additonal buildings. Over the years you live there you'll use the topsoil for many things.
And please get a FEL. Not just for the topsoil but for building the house. I did not have a tractor when I built so I rented equipment and paid people to do things. Just one example was getting materials off of tractor trailers. I rented a forklift to get the pallets of materials off the trucks. I could have used a FEL with fork attachments. Moving materials. Cleaning up construction debris into a dumpster. Moving concrete blocks, gravel, sand, bags of mortar. The list would go on forever.

We bought a "kit" house and the materials showed up on several tractor trailers at the appropriate times for when we needed the materials. Everything for the shell including alot of the foundation, siding, roofing, heating, AC, plywood, studs, windows, doors, sheetrock, isulation, etc. came from one company. It was alot easier this way when you are doing alot of the work yourself. You can concentrate on building and not so much on how many 2x4s or how many feet of ductwork, etc. you need and if you get extra you have to save it, throw it out or return it. They took our hand drawn plans and supplied us with real plans and a material list of where all the materials go in the house and then inspected our progress and delivered materials accordingly.
When I built the garage I bought materials from a local lumber yard. They used a rollback truck to drop off materials. The drivers were always in such a hurry they would slide the stuff off so fast usually the bottom pieces of plywood, studs, etc would get broken and I would have to call them to get replacements.

GlueGuy · Oct 11, 2001

The only issue with removing vs. adding more material on top is the condition of the surface. If the surface material (mainly the turf, and the soft soil therein) is soft, you want to get rid of it before you put a roadbed there. Probably don't want to go too deep, as that would just add cost for more fill (1500' is a pretty good run). When you fill in with #2, or whatever is typical in your area, you want to be sure that the road gets higher than the surrounding area to ensure good run-off.

So you idea of tilling is OK, but you will still need to remove that stuff; just breaking it up would tend to make it worse.

I agree with others that the box blade would probably be the best all-around tool for this. Would be the best way to remove the soft stuff & also grade the road.

The GlueGuy

Bird · Oct 11, 2001

Dave, I usually have no problem with the pictures, but this one is a puzzle. My computer wouldn't open the picture on the other link either this afternoon, but in the original message, I got just a band across the top; got to see the top of the trees. I have no idea why.

Bird

Anonymous Poster · Oct 11, 2001

If I closed my eyes and was planted here… this looks like some of our property… thick nasty and tough vines…

Dave, Very nice job on your photo site...

Gatorboy · Oct 11, 2001

John,

I am at War against the undesireables. I have spent the summer cutting the vines throughout my 30 acres of woods. My war thus far is against the Vines and MultiFlora Rose Bushes. The previous owner(s) just neglected this beautiful land.

Thank you for the kind words on my photos.

Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland

Anonymous Poster · Oct 11, 2001

Dave,

This morning, about 2:30am, I was restless...got out of bed and got on the computer...

For some strange reason, I ended up at your photo site... something like 230 + pictures... as I was studying /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif your Rhino batwing and Kubota {magnified with Opera... playing around}... my wife gets up and see's your tractor and batwing mower on the screen {really magnified} and told me I was nuts...

I just had to explain this was important stuff... /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Harv · Oct 11, 2001

Bird -

Sounds like there is a dirty data path between you and Dave's website server. Not much you can do about it yourself. Just hope that it's annoying other folks along the line so it will eventually get fixed.

John_Mc · Oct 11, 2001

Dave - I agree that you want to remove topsoil before laying down your road. If you want it to last, without having to add rock on a regular basis, take the suggestion others have made about laying down the fabric before putting in the rock. Otherwise, the rock gets pounded into the dirt over time, and the dirt percolates up through the rock.

I'm thinking a boxblade is the way to go for this. You don't need to till it first, just lower the scarifiers and make a pass to loosen things up a bit. (make sure to get a model that has the scarifiers, some of the "barnyard" boxes don't) This will be enought to let the blade dig in on your next pass... though with your horsepower, you may be able to do it in one pass. You can tilt a box blade by adjusting one of your side links. You change the top link length frequently to adjust how the blade digs in. If you are going to be using the blade a lot, hydraulic Top 'N Tilt adjustment is definitely a plus. (IMO, hydraulic scarifiers are less usefull than the TnT, but others with more experience may disagree with me on that one) For 1500', you are definitely going to wish you had a FEL to move all that topsoil any distance.

FYI... I've been told by an excavator here in Vermont that he generally figures on $10+ per foot to put in a gravel driveway (more if there is a lot of grading work to be done). I've not verified this, but if it's accurate, that would definitely help justify a box blade and FEL.

theboman · Oct 11, 2001

Keep that top soil. It took mother nature thousands of years to make it's cheaper to buy gravel than top soil (real mother earth top soil!). It don't matter how you do it, scrape it off for future uses.

Bluegrass, Pick It Up!

radman · Oct 11, 2001

I find it interesting in learning how different roads are built. Where I live, Nebr., most people either haul in dirt or move dirt adjacent to the road to raise the road and thus shallow ditches are formed next to the road. Most people scrape the adjacent dirt to raise the road. In our area, the road is typically raised above the grade to allow for water drainage and less snow accumulation. The road is packed and coarse rock (1"-2") is added and later gravel (3/8 -1/2"). By the posts most people have left, the topsoil is typically removed and the foundation added. The road therefore remains at grade level.

Gatorboy · Oct 12, 2001

John,

Don't know if you noticed or not, but at the bottom of each picture you can select [small - medium - large - original] sizes for the picture.

Original will be the largest, and thus you may not have to zoom quite as much (in case you were looking at a smaller picture to start with)

Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland

Anonymous Poster · Oct 12, 2001

Hi Dave,

After I got to your site, I was experimenting with the zoom on the Opera browser...using your pictures as the "guinea pig"...

You have one picture of you with a weed-wacker and the next with a cleared area with the 15' Rhino batwing {not shown} ... looking like you busted your back side clearing everything with a heavy duty weed wacker {3" stuff?}...

It's a few of those... ya had to be there.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird · Oct 12, 2001

dirty data path between you and Dave's website server

Harv, that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Everything else seems to be working. I get maybe the top half of Dave's picture and that's where it stops. This morning, I got just a little bit more than I did yesterday.

Bird

JJT · Oct 13, 2001

DO NOT DUMP THE GRAVEL ON TOP! Why waste all that topsoil? Here's what I did 10 years ago - remove the top 6 inches of top soil, (price topsoil and you'll be glad you saved it). Put down a base of 6" of #3 cobbles, (fist sized), or bank run gravel. Top dress with 3" of crusher run rubble, (#1). If you don't want the top soil, sell it, you're looking at 250 - 300 yards of material.

dummy · Oct 15, 2001

Alot of good advice already. What caught my attention here was the "wetlands" near the road. Have you checked with the county about crossing these wetlands? Can amount to big trouble. Lots of equipment sounds, site construction and nosy "helpful" neighbors can = problems for you. Plus later on, if you need to get a building permit, they might check back permits for the crossing. It happened to a local guy here. He had to remove the crossing, restore the land and pay a couple thousand in fines. Sorry for the rain on the parade attitude, but a phone call now might save yourself later.

Gatorboy · Oct 15, 2001

Point well taken. I have a permit for a stream crossing (bridge), but I suppose I should talk to them about the ford I would also like to build.

Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland

MikePA · Oct 15, 2001

We had been dumping our stall cleanings in a low area at the far end of a pasture for over 10 years. One of our neighbors reported us to our state's dept of environmental resources. We received a notice that we had to clean it up and find some other way to dispose of our manure and shavings. The notice indicated there was the potential of poluting a nearby stream. The 'stream' was a drainage ditch that runs along a road that fronts our property which only contains water when it rains and it was over 100 yards from where we were dumping. Additionally, 300 yards down the road is a place where the state stores salt, cinders, etc. for maintaining the roads in winter, and parks their dump trucks which I am sure leaked more sodium, diesel fuel and other noxious liquids into the drainage ditch than our stall cleanings ever did. It didn't matter, we had to hire someone with a backhoe who hauled out 4, tri-axle dump truck loads of shavings and manure. I tried to get someone to buy the stuff since it would have been great for fields or gardens but could not find anyone in the time we were given to clean up the area. Once the area was cleaned up, it had to be inspected. Fortunately, there was no fine involved.

TerryinMD · Oct 15, 2001

Additionally, 300 yards down the road is a place where the state stores salt, cinders, etc. for maintaining the roads in winter, and parks their dump trucks which I am sure leaked more sodium, diesel fuel and other noxious liquids into the drainage ditch than our stall cleanings ever did.

That's different - rules are different for you than the state. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Terry