Front End Loader Valve problem

[grafpatrick]

Hello all-
My Yanmar YM2200 tractor has a Buhler 195 FEL. I am having a problem with my 3 pt hitch not working well. It is weak. When I bypass the FEL it works great. Used to work fine, so I am assuming all the connections are properly routed. I suspect my FEL valve is the culprit. It has 7 lines to it - a high pressure inlet, 4 to the cylinders, a return to the hydraulic sump chamber and one line back to the other side of the high pressure line which goes to the 3 point.
I pulled the pressure relief valve. Do not know anything about it but no obvious problem.
How do I check or repair the valve? Are these things repairable or best to just replace? Where to shop for one? Thanks.
John Churchill
Sanibel, FL

 

[grafpatrick]

Hello all-
My Yanmar YM2200 tractor has a Buhler 195 FEL. I am having a problem with my 3 pt hitch not working well. It is weak. When I bypass the FEL it works great. Used to work fine, so I am assuming all the connections are properly routed. I suspect my FEL valve is the culprit. It has 7 lines to it - a high pressure inlet, 4 to the cylinders, a return to the hydraulic sump chamber and one line back to the other side of the high pressure line which goes to the 3 point.
I pulled the pressure relief valve. Do not know anything about it but no obvious problem.
How do I check or repair the valve? Are these things repairable or best to just replace? Where to shop for one? Thanks.
John Churchill
Sanibel, FL

 

[MadReferee]

Best be is to take it to the local hydraulic shop for possible repair.

New valves can be found at Surplus Center. You currently have a 2-spool open center valve with power beyond. You will need another that is within your pumps gpm range.

 

[MadReferee]

Best be is to take it to the local hydraulic shop for possible repair.

New valves can be found at Surplus Center. You currently have a 2-spool open center valve with power beyond. You will need another that is within your pumps gpm range.

 

[RonMar]

Since the flow to the power beyond port is straight thru the valve assembly(untill the flow is diverted thru one of the spool valves to a cylinder), If the loader valve is working fine in all other respects, I would guess that it is probably not a problem with the valve itself. I would take a real close look at the quick connect fittings, as a restriction there could also effect the flow to the 3PH. This can sometimes happen when mixing QC's from different manufacturers.

 

[RonMar]

Since the flow to the power beyond port is straight thru the valve assembly(untill the flow is diverted thru one of the spool valves to a cylinder), If the loader valve is working fine in all other respects, I would guess that it is probably not a problem with the valve itself. I would take a real close look at the quick connect fittings, as a restriction there could also effect the flow to the 3PH. This can sometimes happen when mixing QC's from different manufacturers.

 

[grafpatrick]

Thanks for the tip. I bypassed the FEL valve by using the quick connects, so I suppose that leaves only one end suspect.
John

 

[grafpatrick]

Thanks for the tip. I bypassed the FEL valve by using the quick connects, so I suppose that leaves only one end suspect.
John

 

[john_bud]

Don't rush out and buy a new valve too quick, you may be wasting your $$$. There are 2 places for fluid to leak and cause your problem. One is the valve, which is made of hardened chrome plated steel or the packing inside the cylinder. It's about 99 to 1 that the packing in the cylinder is bad.

You can test. Extend the bucket cylinders all the way out. Unhook the hose to the cylinders that would cause them to retract. Cap them off or cover them or plug with paper towel. Then use the control to extend the bucket cylinders more. They won't cause they are already out all the way, but the full pressure that the relief valve will allow is now acting on the cylinder packings. They should not leak or at most just a little bit.

Repeat the procedure with the lift cylinders. If you do the test and there is no leakage, then you can feel good about the cylinders and bad about the valve.

jb

 

[john_bud]

Don't rush out and buy a new valve too quick, you may be wasting your $$$. There are 2 places for fluid to leak and cause your problem. One is the valve, which is made of hardened chrome plated steel or the packing inside the cylinder. It's about 99 to 1 that the packing in the cylinder is bad.

You can test. Extend the bucket cylinders all the way out. Unhook the hose to the cylinders that would cause them to retract. Cap them off or cover them or plug with paper towel. Then use the control to extend the bucket cylinders more. They won't cause they are already out all the way, but the full pressure that the relief valve will allow is now acting on the cylinder packings. They should not leak or at most just a little bit.

Repeat the procedure with the lift cylinders. If you do the test and there is no leakage, then you can feel good about the cylinders and bad about the valve.

jb

 

[SPYDERLK]

Good method on checking cylinder piston packing. Im still trying to grasp the nuances of hydraulics so I may be all wet on this, but I thot a loader valve in neutral position left the loader isolated, supplying only the power beyond. If so, this points back to a valve problem - or a combination of the 2.
Larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

Good method on checking cylinder piston packing. Im still trying to grasp the nuances of hydraulics so I may be all wet on this, but I thot a loader valve in neutral position left the loader isolated, supplying only the power beyond. If so, this points back to a valve problem - or a combination of the 2.
Larry

 

[JerryG]

John,
Have you had all of the connectors unhooked and rehooked more than once with the same results?

 

[JerryG]

John,
Have you had all of the connectors unhooked and rehooked more than once with the same results?

 

[MadReferee]

A leaky cylinder will not be causing your problem. Fluid cannot return to the tank when the spool is in neutral, if it does then the valve is bad. Even so this should have no bearing on the 3pt working or not working since presumably the cylinders are not getting any pressure.

A defective loader valve or its connectors may be the culprit since the problem goes away when the loader valve is removed from the circuit. Depending on the valve's internal design, a failed o-ring or a mis-adjusted spool rod or a bad relief can cause fluid to bypass the power beyond port and be sent directly to the tank. You don't mention how you plumbed everything when the loader valve was removed so we can't rule out a bad hose or fitting either.

 

[MadReferee]

A leaky cylinder will not be causing your problem. Fluid cannot return to the tank when the spool is in neutral, if it does then the valve is bad. Even so this should have no bearing on the 3pt working or not working since presumably the cylinders are not getting any pressure.

A defective loader valve or its connectors may be the culprit since the problem goes away when the loader valve is removed from the circuit. Depending on the valve's internal design, a failed o-ring or a mis-adjusted spool rod or a bad relief can cause fluid to bypass the power beyond port and be sent directly to the tank. You don't mention how you plumbed everything when the loader valve was removed so we can't rule out a bad hose or fitting either.

 

[grafpatrick]

Thanks for the help-
Tried twice with same results. Hooked hi pressure quick release to other end of hi pressure line, essentially completely bypassing FEL and 3 pt works fine. Took other quick release ends completely off and connected to each other and get free passage of air by blowing thru, so all my quick releases are OK.
There are no external fluid leaks, so I assume that even a bad cylinder should still be maintaining pressure to the power beyond port. I do not know how these valves work, but the only thing I can figure is that somehow the valve is bad and spilling fluid preferentially back to the sump return when in neutral position rather than to the power beyond port.

 

[grafpatrick]

Thanks for the help-
Tried twice with same results. Hooked hi pressure quick release to other end of hi pressure line, essentially completely bypassing FEL and 3 pt works fine. Took other quick release ends completely off and connected to each other and get free passage of air by blowing thru, so all my quick releases are OK.
There are no external fluid leaks, so I assume that even a bad cylinder should still be maintaining pressure to the power beyond port. I do not know how these valves work, but the only thing I can figure is that somehow the valve is bad and spilling fluid preferentially back to the sump return when in neutral position rather than to the power beyond port.

 

[grafpatrick]

Incidently it seems that at times it is better when the oil is cold, suggesting a leaky seal with thinner hot oil

 

[grafpatrick]

Incidently it seems that at times it is better when the oil is cold, suggesting a leaky seal with thinner hot oil