Front Mounting Rear Blade

[daTeacha]

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this one, but it seems close enough.

I have the QA fel on my Case DX29. I also have a 3 point carry-all that was bought thinking it would be very useful with my old Kubota, which turned out to be incorrect, leaving me with a nice carry-all and nothing to use it with.

The bucket on the Case is a little wide to easily move into and out of my woodshed, so I have made up some side plates from 3" angle iron and welded them to the sides of the carry-all, enabling me to lift it with the fel and easily move in and out of the woodshed with a pallet or box on the carry-all.

Now, I'm thinking a front snow blade is much nicer to use than a rear one, so I have a slight modification to the carryall which will allow me to mount my 6' rear blade to it. I'll be putting the force from the blade against 1/2 inch thick piece of steel 36 inches long and 8 inches tall backed by a piece of 3" x 1/4" thick angle iron set to form an inverted V shape against the length of the steel plate. The angle iron is part of the frame of the carry-all. Behind that, I'll be making a 3" box member out of more of the channel steel to back up the angle iron and also serve as the lock for the pin that keeps the blade in position.

The blade pivots on a 1 3/4" diameter piece of round steel which currently fits in a 3" diameter round section that is welded to some heavy angle. The force pulls against the angle iron of the original 3 point frame of the back blade. In the new application, it will push against the frame of the carry-all.

My question is this -- do you guys think a 3 inch wide block of steel in the center of the 36" wide 1/2" thick plate will be wide enough to not risk bending the frame of the carry-all when plowing snow? The block will be 4" tall and the plate will be 8" tall.

I need to have this piece made up by an outside shop, probably at the local career center where my wife is a counselor. I can't drill a 1 3/4" hole through a 4" thickness of steel with my tools. They could probably make the block as wide as I want it but I don't want it any bigger than needed because it will interfere with the wood carrying work. How wide do you think I need it to be?

 

[ovrszd]

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this one, but it seems close enough.

I have the QA fel on my Case DX29. I also have a 3 point carry-all that was bought thinking it would be very useful with my old Kubota, which turned out to be incorrect, leaving me with a nice carry-all and nothing to use it with.

The bucket on the Case is a little wide to easily move into and out of my woodshed, so I have made up some side plates from 3" angle iron and welded them to the sides of the carry-all, enabling me to lift it with the fel and easily move in and out of the woodshed with a pallet or box on the carry-all.

Now, I'm thinking a front snow blade is much nicer to use than a rear one, so I have a slight modification to the carryall which will allow me to mount my 6' rear blade to it. I'll be putting the force from the blade against 1/2 inch thick piece of steel 36 inches long and 8 inches tall backed by a piece of 3" x 1/4" thick angle iron set to form an inverted V shape against the length of the steel plate. The angle iron is part of the frame of the carry-all. Behind that, I'll be making a 3" box member out of more of the channel steel to back up the angle iron and also serve as the lock for the pin that keeps the blade in position.

The blade pivots on a 1 3/4" diameter piece of round steel which currently fits in a 3" diameter round section that is welded to some heavy angle. The force pulls against the angle iron of the original 3 point frame of the back blade. In the new application, it will push against the frame of the carry-all.

My question is this -- do you guys think a 3 inch wide block of steel in the center of the 36" wide 1/2" thick plate will be wide enough to not risk bending the frame of the carry-all when plowing snow? The block will be 4" tall and the plate will be 8" tall.

I need to have this piece made up by an outside shop, probably at the local career center where my wife is a counselor. I can't drill a 1 3/4" hole through a 4" thickness of steel with my tools. They could probably make the block as wide as I want it but I don't want it any bigger than needed because it will interfere with the wood carrying work. How wide do you think I need it to be?

You really need to post some pics of all this, you lost me wayyyyy back in your descriptions. One thing I will say, pushing snow is extremely hard on equipment. With that in mind, you have your tractor pushing against your loader mounts, which are pushing against you homemade carryall mounts, which are pushing against your homemade blade mounts. Doesn't sound very good to me. Now when you angle the blade your throw in a whole new set of pressures.

Is your bucket quicktach??? I'm including a picture I saved of a great idea from someone here on TBN. I wish I could remember who built it and give them credit. Maybe they will see this and claim it.

 

[daTeacha]

Yeah, I should post a pic or two. I was just in the basement with the computer and working up a drawing of the outsourced part I need and thought I'd ask you guys about it. It was raining and I didn't feel like going up to the shop and getting the pics taken. I'll take some when I get home and post them tonight.

My basic thought process is that the thing is designed to move snow an dirt on the back of the tractor working against that one 1 3/4 bearing surface and then the 3 point hitch, so why not work against the same surface on the front? I can use it on the back to either pull or push snow, but snow removal just seems to work better with a front blade. I don't usually get huge amounts of snow -- a foot and a half of new snow is pretty exciting around here.

Yes, my bucket is a QA type. The guy who made the item in the pictures is apparently intending to use some rear mount equipment on the front of his tractor, too. Hanging the normal 3 point framework out there in front of the loader arms would seem to put it w-a-a-a-a-y out front though.

 

[ovrszd]

Yeah, I should post a pic or two. I was just in the basement with the computer and working up a drawing of the outsourced part I need and thought I'd ask you guys about it. It was raining and I didn't feel like going up to the shop and getting the pics taken. I'll take some when I get home and post them tonight.

My basic thought process is that the thing is designed to move snow an dirt on the back of the tractor working against that one 1 3/4 bearing surface and then the 3 point hitch, so why not work against the same surface on the front? I can use it on the back to either pull or push snow, but snow removal just seems to work better with a front blade. I don't usually get huge amounts of snow -- a foot and a half of new snow is pretty exciting around here.

Yes, my bucket is a QA type. The guy who made the item in the pictures is apparently intending to use some rear mount equipment on the front of his tractor, too. Hanging the normal 3 point framework out there in front of the loader arms would seem to put it w-a-a-a-a-y out front though.

Again, I in no way want to take credit for these designs, but I'm including a couple more pictures I have found on TBN. These are very good ideas in my opinion for pushing snow with a loader frame.

 

[daTeacha]

Okay, here are some pictures of what I'm planning to do.

The first one shows the attachment of the blade to the 3 point framework. The cylinder shown is 3" in diameter, 4" tall. The hole is 1 3/4". The blade pulls against this point and pivots in the hole.

The next two show the side plates I've made up and connected to my carry-all. They're made from 3" channel steel, are approximately 16 inches tall and 11 inches wide. They fit the QA plates on my loader arms perfectly. The angles at the top and bottom are 45 degrees, which I believe is an industry standard.

The final pic shows the carry-all frame with QA plates attached. The crossmember at the bottom will be just behind a 1/2" thick x 8" tall section I plan to install. The piece of angle iron showing will be backed by a full width box section made up from more 3" channel.

The outsourced piece that will be the actual mounting point for the blade will be 4" tall, 3" front to back, and at least 3" wide. It will fit in the center of the 1/2" plate in front of the bottom crossmember. I can have it made about as wide as I want, but the original application was only 3" wide. I may just weld some more channel side to side from this piece to the arms of the frame.

As I see it the weakest spot will be where the QA plates are welded to the frame. The welds are not pretty, but I'm pretty sure they have enough depth. Each side has about 40 lineal inches of weld holding it in place. I could place another section (or two, three, or four) of 3" channel across the front of the whole rig if you guys think it's needed to keep the plates from bending forward when I push this rig through the snow.

 

[Thomas]

Good morning Sir.
After reading your post number of times also looking at the pics I think I know what your trying to do.

As stated in a post pushing snow w/loader arms can put strain on...more so if the if its a heavy wet snow.
Do you plan on plowing much w/your blade at 45 degrees?...I feel more comfortable having two pressure points (plow frame & corner of bucket) instead of one when plowing at 45 degrees w/full blade of snow.

"me to mount my 6' rear blade to it."...does your snow plow blade have trip springs,for theres almost nothing worst than hitting frozen object etc very hard on equipment while pushing snow.

Not knowing what kind of tractor rear thread you have,maybe a good set of tire chains well help when pushing a full blade of snow??

Do keep us updated...very interesting.

 

[daTeacha]

I will probably always have the blade angled to one side or the other. I have Ag tires on the tractor. The point about the spring mounts is well taken and will bear some thought. The driveway shouldn't have large obstacles in it.

My loader can be set so the bucket "flops" or is not held in position by hydraulic pressure. This may or may not work in lieu of springs with the blade mounted. I shall see.

It has been my experience in plowing snow with this blade mounted as a rear 3 point blade that there is plenty of traction and power most of the time. When we do get deep snow, and I had my Kubota B7100, the tractor would tend to be pushed sideways as I drove along dragging the snow. In those situations, I simply used the front bucket to pick the stuff up and move it. I have also mounted the blade from the Cadet to a bolt on arrangement in the bucket of the Kubota with great success, but that blade is only 3 feet wide. It was also very hard to see the blade hanging way out there in front of the bucket. As a consequence of that fact, I did hit something and broke the mounting system, although I don't remember the exact nature of the damage. The blade still works, though.

I have found that my little Cadet 109 with a 12 horse engine and chains will handily move our amounts of snow with a front mounted blade. It worked so much better than the Kubota that I used the Cadet most of the time.

Since getting the new tractor (DX29 with QA loader bucket), it occurred to me that I could relatively easily convert my carry-all to function as a mounting point for the blade section of my 3 point rear blade. By building it this way, I can remove one nut, reinstall the 6' blade on the back of the tractor, then put the bucket back on the front if the snow gets serious.

 

[Renze]

How well do these tractor handle a 45° angle blade ? I would think the blade would push the front end into the roadside pretty easy ??

I'm thinking of making a simple angle blade for my front loader to rebuild crowns on dirt roads, but i'm not sure if the front end is heavy enough to hold the blade on the road.

 

[Thomas]

How well do these tractor handle a 45° angle blade ? I would think the blade would push the front end into the roadside pretty easy ??
QUOTE]

I to would be leery performing such act w/blade on gravel driveway for that could cause a lot more stress also damage on the loader...digging in point of the blade,also trying to do nice looking job...I would stick w/rear blade for such job.

 

[Renze]

Thomas, i was thinking i'd just make it foldable on my 3pt hitch field drag. This drag is 3 meter wide, so then it will be 1,5 meter offset to the center line of the tractor. When the blade is mounted at a 45° angle, the forces will equal up and i expect no steering problems at all
When the ploughing is done, i can fold it up and use the 3pt drag to shave it to a perfect finish

 

[bones1]

Interesting attachment Thomas. Where did you get that?

 

[daTeacha]

Well, I finally got the center block back from the Career Center, where the students made it for me. It took a while, but I can't complain about the price -- it was free!

I had a smaller scale rig similar to the one Thomas posted a pic of, using my 1 meter (3 foot) blade from the Cadet mounted to the bucket of my Kubota. It worked well enough, but it was very far out in front of the tractor and difficult to control precisely. I broke a weld on it (one of my poor ones) by hitting a large rock and just remounted it on the Cadet. The main reason I moved it is that the Cadet has only a manual lift for the blade, and sitting on the tractor while trying to steer, run the hydro lever, and raise and lower the blade irritated my back problems and often required a third hand.

I hope to get a chance to do some more work on this project this weekend, and if so will post some pictures of the progress.

I am a little concerned about the relative rigidity of this thing. Is it possible to limit the downward motion of the loader arms but still let them float upward? If I can do that somehow, then angling the blade downward will permit it to simply slide over objects that it doesn't move aside.

 

[PineRidge]

Land Pride makes what you're looking for. Check this out.

 

[daTeacha]

I think you're on the wrong end of the tractor, unless that quick hitch connects up to the QA plates on the loader. Putting a quick hitch on the loader arms and then putting the 3 point blade on backwards would put my blade about 10 feet in front of the front tires, I think. That's too awkward for my driving abilities and manuevering space, plus it would make a really long lever arm hanging out there in front of the tractor, which might get interesting going down the hill, "dumping" or rolling back the loader, and so on.

:0 ! -- With the limited visibility I have at the foot of the drive, I might have the blade well into the road before I could see if someone was coming along in a car, too!

I'm going to remove the blade from the 3 point frame and hang it in my homemade frame at about the same distance from the front wheels as the back of the bucket normally is.

 

[Thomas]

Where did you get that?

Good Morning.
Home made...except the plow.

 

[daTeacha]

Nice work! Looks professional.

 

[daTeacha]

Okay, I got the part back again. This time, the hole matches up with the pivot on the blade so I hope to be getting back to it this weekend. This post is just to dredge up the thread so I can find it later. I'll post a pic or two as things move along, although the weather might keep me working in the house instead of welding out in the shop.

 

[ns_in_tex]

Now, I'm thinking a front snow blade is much nicer to use than a rear one,

If I had any snow, I would be caught trying to use mine. Has come in very handy at times.

 

[daTeacha]

That looks more useful than mine since it rides closer to the tractor. I used a 3 point carry all and made up the QA brackets from 3" channel steel. An earlier post suggested using a Quick Hitch, but I'm basically cheap and besides I think my blade would have been so far back or ahead of the loader arms it would have been a problem.

 

[ns_in_tex]

I think my blade would have been so far back or ahead of the loader arms it would have been a problem.

Actually, mine is made so it can be connected from either side, so if you want it to reach far out in front of the tractor, like to clean out the creek banks, I can just connect from the other side.