Snow Front snow plow with hydraulic angle change question

[Thirsty]

I have a question concerning hydraulic supply for changing the angle of a front mounted snow plow.

What I have:
Tractor - L5460 HST Cab
Backhoe - BH92
FEL - LA1055 (Has quick attach bucket Skid steer type quick connect/disconnect)
I have 1 set of rear remotes

I do not have any additional hydraulics run to FEL, just the 4 standard hydraulic lines.

I'm considering purchasing a front snow blade with a manual angle change. So far straight forward, and no problems. However, what I would like to do is add a hydraulic cylinder to the front blade to adjust the angle.
I could also purchase a snow blade with the hydraulic angel adjust built in.
Both options present the same problem no available hydraulic supply up on the FEL.

Here is my question, what are your thoughts on using the rear set of remotes to supply hydraulic pressure via hoses run from the rear to the front. Long runs I know. I also understand they would have to be protected from damage. Will this work? What problems will this approach present?

I understand that while using this set up, I cannot have the Backhoe hooked up to the hydraulic system. I found this in the Backhoe manual:
It is necessary to have the backhoe detached when using rear remotes, the 3-point hitch or any other valves that are downstream of the backhoe valve. Failure to do this may cause the exceeding allowable back pressure to break the seal or case of the backhoe valve. (Yes, this is the exact wording from the manual)

 

[camshawn]

THirsty
I have 2 rear remotes on our Mahindra. I ran a set of lines from the rear remotes to the location of the loader disconnects and mounted a disconnect bracket for them. On our loader, I ran 2 lines from the centre of the frame behind the bucket to connect in with the 2 rear remotes. I can connect a tree puller I made or the Grapple that is coming and use the rear remote to control it. If I remove the loader frame, it is 2 more lines to disconnect. The functionality is worth the cost of another set of quick connects.
Cam
Ps you need a crossover relief for the angle cylinders.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Just pin the swing, boom, and stabilizers before disconnecting the hoe's hydraulic PB loop. :thumbsup:

 

[Thirsty]

Clearly, I have more to learn. It sounds like it will work if I pipe it up correctly.

Luke, my stabilizers do not have pins or other means to hold them up, I suppose I can strap them up before I remove the hydraulic hose. Thanks for the info.

camshawn, Adding the disconnects near the others is a good idea. I agree it would be worth the small additional cost.

Thanks for the thoughts.
Thirsty

One other quetion, I am assuming the hydraulic system for the remotes is an open center system. Can someone confirm this? I already have a double acting cylinder from an older snow plow that I planned to use. In this case, I do not need a crossover releif, correct?

Thanks for your help.

 

[kennyd]

Thirsty,
MANY guys use their rear remote to operate snowplows and/or grapples, if you search some you'll find quite a few threads about it. All need is long 1/4" or 3/8" hoses and a few couplers and your all set.

Yes, you have an open center system.

 

[RickB]

Regarding the crossover relief, I recommend the use of one on any snowplow hydraulic angle installation. The quantity and style of cylinder used doesn't matter.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have considered a front blade for my BX 25. Picked up the QC part q while back at a sale. Per the manual, the way it works is use all four lines from the FEL joy stick; two for the lift and two for the angle. The way the system is made it would take a major modification to make into a six way blade. So; the FEL joy stick should be all you need and the hoses are right their. On the BX you have to remove the FEL to install he FB.

Ron

 

[Thirsty]

I don't intend to remove my FEL, just the Bucket. My bucket has a skidsteer type quick release. After my bucket is removed, I can install one of these:
Amazon.com: Skidsteer 3 Point Attachment Adapter Skid Steer trailer hitch front loader case: Home Improvement

I can then attach my snow plow to the adapter plate. The FEL will raise and lower the plow. I suppose I could use the side to side FEL joystick controls to contol the side to side angle. I really should not need to adjust up and down tilt of the blade. Don't know why I didn't think of that before.

Anyone have thought on using the FEL controls in this manor?

 

[kennyd]

I don't intend to remove my FEL, just the Bucket. My bucket has a skidsteer type quick release. After my bucket is removed, I can install one of these:
Amazon.com: Skidsteer 3 Point Attachment Adapter Skid Steer trailer hitch front loader case: Home Improvement

I can then attach my snow plow to the adapter plate. The FEL will raise and lower the plow. I suppose I could use the side to side FEL joystick controls to contol the side to side angle. I really should not need to adjust up and down tilt of the blade. Don't know why I didn't think of that before.

Anyone have thought on using the FEL controls in this manor?

Generally speaking, you'll want to be able to change the angle of attack of the blade so you will need another circuit. Not only to correct some cylinder drift, but when piling/stacking snow if you don't change the angle of the blade it it be facing the sky what you raise the loader.

 

[Thirsty]

Does anyone know where I can get a schematic of the hydraulic system on my l5460? HSTC. I'm interested in the FEL and remotes. Not the HST or power steering systems.

 

[RickB]

Run hoses from the plow angle hydraulics to the loader quick disconnects for the bucket circuit. Make a pair of hoses to connect to your existing bucket curl circuit hoses that are newly disconnected to your rear remote hydraulic valve. Use the rear remote valve to make the occasional adjustment to blade tilt. Use the bucket curl function on the joystick to angle the plow left & right.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Thirsty, I visualize your ideas, I think. With the bucket off the curl cylinders are sitting there with nothing to do. Set op some QDs on the hoses if necessary and then use the 2 curl hoses to power the tilt system on the plow. One control to work with. Joy stick then; up/down on the blade and left/right on the blade angle. A lot easier than reaching around for a rear mounted valve. You will want to devise a means to support the curl cylinders from flopping around. I am sure you are ingenious enough to handle that.

Ron

 

[MHarryE]

I use the bucket curl function a lot on my front snow blade. One use is for pushing up banks when the snow starts to really pile up. By curling the blade while raising I can pile the snow higher. Another thing is tilting the blade when backdragging away from my garage doors. I tilt the blade so its not riding on the skids and get it cleaner right to the door. Also, since I have the ability to tilt easily, I vary the angle when I really want to get the most loose snow off my snow packed driveway. I ran the angle adjust from the SCV on my L5740 but got a third function on my new L6060. Running from the SCV was not a problem - I got the third function more for my grapple which was inconvenient running from a SCV.

 

[Thirsty]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I finally made a decision. I'm going to run hoses from my rear remotes to the snow blade angle cyllinders. I measured for the hoses today using an old garden hose. 23' for each of the two hydraulic hoses. Longer than I thought. I plan to use 1/4" hydraulic hose for maximum flexibility. I think this will operate the cylinder fast enough. It is not a very big cylinder.

Is 1/4" big enough?

One more question, this one with pictures....

I know how to connect and disconnect the type of quick disconnect shown in this photo. You just pull/push back the knurled sleeve and the fitting pops apart.


I'm a bit confused on the ones in the following picture. I can push them together, but how do you get them back apart?


Thanks.

 

[kennyd]

Is 1/4" big enough?

Yes, its perfect-I've sold several setups like that.

As to the remotes you pictured, they are called "breakaway" style, with them you just push in and then pull out quickly and sharply, the male nipple will pop right out.

 

[Thirsty]

Thanks KennyD.

 

[Fallon]

I got a 3rd function on my new L4060. Have yet to fix up an old truck plow (or more likely now get a new or newer SSQA plow) to mount on it though.

If you have extra rear hydraulics, you can just run a long hose pair up front to run angle or other stuff. The OEM QD operate mostly like the standard ones, except they are mounted by the sleeve rather than the back of the fitting. Pull on the hose & the sleeve stays put & fitting moves causing the hose to pop free like moving the sleeve on standard fittings. Same for connecting. It's really nice & can be done 1 handed unlike standard fittings. Also likely to disconnect on its own properly if forgotten or an impliment falls off. I wouldn't trust it for routine use though as it might jam due to alignment issues. Always manually disconnect if possible.

PM me & I'll try to get the hydro diagram out of my Lxx60 WSM.

 

[Fxfymn]

I have a set of lines running from my rear remotes to the front of the FEL. I set mine up with quick connects at the point where the loader arms pivot on the frame, the place that the large pin goes through to pin the loader on the tractor. This allows me to leave the lines to the front of the loader in place when I remove the loader. The lines to the front can be run through the loader arms this way.

I operate my grapple with this set up and I have operated a hydraulic power angle for a blade when I used a FEL set up for the blade.

One thing to keep in mind is that the power angle cylinders are single action cylinders. All you need to do is hook one hose to each piston and the hydraulic pressure from one cylinder will push fluid back through the valve from the other cylinder.

 

[Fallon]

One thing to keep in mind is that the power angle cylinders are single action cylinders. All you need to do is hook one hose to each piston and the hydraulic pressure from one cylinder will push fluid back through the valve from the other cylinder.

Only semi-related... That fact causes problems if you try to use a diverter & your loader valve only does regen (like all the economy Kubotas). Regen dumps full pressure to both hoses. On your bucket dump the but end of the cylinder having more surface area than the rod end will overpower the rod end. Dumps faster because of the extra fluid coming out of the but end & also prevents worn seals from sucking in air as the bucket pulls on the cylinders faster than the pump can fill em. 2 opposing single action cylinders just push against each other equally & do nothing when hit with regen.

 

[LD1]

Bit late to the thread as it seems you already have your mind set, but a few things worth mentioning.

1. No need to detach the backhoe. Just unhook the hoses. The concern then becomes the boom drifting down. Double check your manual. I could be wrong, but I have yet to see a backhoe that didnt have a place to chain the boom up. You are actually supposed to do that when transporting or driving down the road. On the main boom, about mid way up should either be chain hooks or keyhole looking slots that a chain will grab into. The same should be on the ends of the outriggers. Raise boom and outriggers up all the way and chain as short as you can. Then lower the boom (preferably with gravity and tractor off) to take the slack out of the chains. If you dont do this, the boom can drift and you might have a hard time recoupling the backhoe if those couplers arent a connect-under-pressure style.

2. What type of plow are you going to use? There are basically two types, rigid SSQA types, and converted truck plows that have a chain lift. For gravel or rolling drives, the chain type is the preference. Because without a chain to allow ONLY the plow to float, you are either going to be constantly adjusting, or putting the whole loader in float. Which dont work real well as the whole tractor tries to drive up over the loader, and you loose steering. Have you ever tried to Float your loader bucket going forward? Now imagine that happening when plowing.

3. A pair of SA cylinders like a truck plow normally has is preferable. A few reasons. 1. You will have equal angling speed. A single DA cylinder will be fast one way, slow the other. 2. Equal angle force. Same as before. A DA cylinder will be weaker one direction and stronger the other. 3. The ability to use a crossover relief. You CANNOT use a crossover with a single DA cylinder. Well, you can....but it aint gonna do squat. If you catch something with the edge (side) of the plow, and the cylinder isnt already fully retracted, you put a heck of a pressure spike in the hoses and cylinder. Hit something hard enough and you pop a hose. Think about a floor jack. You have a handle that is pumping a little rod that builds pressure and raises the jack. Well the plow is the handle and the cylinder is the little pumping rod. You have alot of tractor/weight, and with some speed and leverage, its easy to pop a hose. Which would be a big concern of mine using the rear remotes....just depending on where you route the hoses. (Right beside you?) The crossover relief protects against this by dumping oil from one cylinder to the other once a certain pressure is exceeded. But they only work with two cylinders of equal volume. A Single DA cylinder has differing volumes.

4. Have you considered a diverter or third function? I did a diverter setup on mine and a joystick for the loader with a button. I had just a tad over $300 for everything but doing over again, it would have been cheaper because I would not have used the expensive flat face 1/2" couplers. I would have just used 3/8 or 1/4" couplers similar to what snowplows already have. All I run is a grapple and a plow, no need for massive couplers.

There are links in my signature regarding a diverter install, as well as a truck plow conversion to use on a tractor. Truck plows are a dime a dozed compared to SSQA plows