Frost, and heaving of post frame buildings

[Deere Dude]

I have a 60'x135' post frame building in Central Wisconsin. I am in clay country, and frost goes deep here. The posts were put in about 4' 6" down, with a concrete doughnut placed below. I dug up around the building and put 4" of Styrofoam down, 1' wide below the bottom board thinking the frost was pushing up the bottom board, that did not work. Actually the styrofoam is about 2" below the board, with a piece of plastic nailed to both sides of the board to keep out the granite. So if the ground heaved it would cut into the styrofoam for 2" then go up.
So I think the frost is actually push or grabbing the posts and pushing the building up, but only on the North wall, or at least the north wall is the worst. Some posts move much more than others.
Do any of you have this problem? What can I do to fix the issue? The building contractor will not help, they claim it is my site and that they do not employ a soil tester, so I am out of luck, even though they have built many buildings in this area.
Right now I dig up the posts every other year, and remove the dirt from between the post and the concrete doughnut, and pound the post back down to close the the original height, but this is getting old fast.
Any help would be great. Thanks in advance........

Were all these posts set in virgin soil? You have all kinds of fixes posted already but I just am curious on this point.

 

[tommu56]

I know you said clay but the problem is the frost heave if you can keep it dry under and around the barn it will help letting the snow pike up keeps it wet longer.

A friend had a problem with his house basement and didnt want to exicavate down to the footer and put a drain in.
He flashed from the wall out about 6/8 ft with foam and plastic and foam again with the plastic running up under the siding this was only down 2-3 ft and it eliminated his problem

 

[Gizmo2]

What I used. This type of pole construction (bottom part) is also used for the replacement of rotting poles in existing buildings.

 

[RickB]

When I dig up a pole in the spring/summer, there is space and dirt between the concrete doughnut, and pole, up to 2 to 3 inches. That leads me to believe the pole is going up, but the concrete doughnut is staying put.
...

This information is new, at least to me. Is the building open on one side? When I was involved in the design of a 50x200 3 sided pole building several years ago, the contractor was more concerned with wind getting under the roof and lifting the structure than any other design element. Is your building fully enclosed, and if not, were "wings" attached to the poles below grade to prevent lifting by wind?

 

[BMod]

Were all these posts set in virgin soil? You have all kinds of fixes posted already but I just am curious on this point.

At the 4'6" depth all posts are on virgin soil. The soil hauled in for fill, is local clay also, so really no difference. The whole site has about 8" to 12" of granite on it. The base below the granite was brought up about 12" on the north side, and about 24" on the south side, so the building is raised above the surrounding grade level. The building has no eves, but it does have rain gutters around the building.....

 

[BMod]

This information is new, at least to me. Is the building open on one side? When I was involved in the design of a 50x200 3 sided pole building several years ago, the contractor was more concerned with wind getting under the roof and lifting the structure than any other design element. Is your building fully enclosed, and if not, were "wings" attached to the poles below grade to prevent lifting by wind?

The building is entirely enclosed, the issue is frost, not wind, it only happens around mid February, when the frost is at it's worst. Wings added to poles were talked about a few posts up, basically a butt end of a 2x6 is all there is for stopping uplift..........

 

[Gizmo2]

This information is new, at least to me. Is the building open on one side? When I was involved in the design of a 50x200 3 sided pole building several years ago, the contractor was more concerned with wind getting under the roof and lifting the structure than any other design element. Is your building fully enclosed, and if not, were "wings" attached to the poles below grade to prevent lifting by wind?

Are you reading the post that have already been added? Sorry but it is hard to follow the validity of your posts (writings).

 

[RickB]

Are you reading the post that have already been added? Sorry but it is hard to follow the validity of your posts (writings).

I didn't read your post #23 because it wasn't there when I drafted my most recent response. I was attempting to read all the OP's postings without suffering through some of the other garbage in this thread, most notably added by those that think frost isn't the issue.
I apologise and will make it easy for you. I'm outta here. Not really looking for your validity stamp.

 

[Gizmo2]

I didn't read your post #23 because it wasn't there when I drafted my most recent response. I was attempting to read all the OP's postings without suffering through some of the other garbage in this thread, most notably added by those that think frost isn't the issue.
I apologise and will make it easy for you. I'm outta here. Not really looking for your validity stamp.

Whoops! Sorry.

 

[tcreeley]

I built my barn with pressure treated sills and 2x4 stick/plywood construction resting on 8" PVC pipe filled with cement and 5' below surface.Frost is usually 4-5 ' depending on the year. I noticed a wall shift up one winter in the doorway where the horses pass in and out (free to do so). I built a 6x6 PT rough post fence along the barn to keep the horses further from the wall. Since then - no frost heave problems, but right beside the 6x6 rough pressure treated post deep in the ground - there is heaving- 3-4 inches a year. Where ever the horses walk close by, the posts are up- about 10-12 inches now. Their traffic drives the frost deeper. The drainage is good, but the soil is clay. A friend said the frost will not be able to grab onto the PVC to heave it. It helps but not a cure.
Put them in gravel and couple feet below the worst frost depth!