Frustrated with Jinma 354 Start Problem

[cnsJohn]

My Jinma will not start. I've got voltage from the battery, thru the ignition switch and clutch switch. Gauges work when key is in on position, but when I turn the key to start, I get nothing, no clicks, nothing. Last time this happened I changed the starter solenoid and it cranked right up. I just changed it again, but still start up is dead. Where does the current go after leaving the clutch switch? To fuse block? (fuses are good). What electrical components are between the clutch switch and the starter solenoid?

Your insight and experience are greatly appreciated.

JohnJ

 

[Garycw]

Not sure from clutch switch. I thought starter. ? Sounds like you'll need someone to make sure try and start, make sure it's in Neutral, clutch fully depressed and a meter with long enough leads to be away from tires. See if voltage is making it to starter solenoid, and battery voltage good.
Could also DISCONNECT battery and check terminal connections on solenoid & starter.
Tommy at Affordable Tractor Parts may be able to help too.

 

[erj]

What voltage are you getting at the small terminal on the Solenoid when key is in Start position?

 

[quicksandfarmer]

What voltage are you getting at the small terminal on the Solenoid when key is in Start position?

I think this is the path to take. My recollection is that the current flows from fuse block to key switch to clutch switch to solenoid. Start at the solenoid and work backwards. Both key switch and clutch switch are known to fail.

 

[cnsJohn]

erj,

Thank you for the response. I'm sorry to take so long with my reply (been out of town). The battery tests good. I'm getting 12.8V at the large lug of the solenoid. When I turn the key to the start position, the voltage between the small terminal and ground is only 10.5V (with the small red wire connected to the solenoid or with it removed, measuring between the wire and ground). What could be causing the voltage drop?

 

[Bob Rooks]

What could be causing the voltage drop?

That would be the coil draw in the solenoid motor. You should also see a corresponding drop on the large solenoid battery terminal. Have you tried jumping between the two large solenoid terminals? (Be sure the transmission is in neutral and the wheels blocked).

 

[cnsJohn]

Bob,

Thanks for the insight. Haven't tried going directly to starter side of the solenoid, as I wasn't sure if the starter would hold up to the battery current.

I considered the solenoid coil might drop the voltage, so I checked the voltage directly on the return wire (with the wire removed from the solenoid, so without the coil in the loop). The voltage stayed at 10.5.

If it won't hurt the starter, I'm willing to just it directly from the battery.

 

[cnsJohn]

Update: I did try jumping directly from the battery to the starter side of the solenoid (with the key in the run/on position). I had spark, but no starter function.
Also, I tighten a ground wire at the fuse block. Now I at least get a click at the solenoid when attempting to start. Guess I'll pull the starter and have it tested at Advance Auto.

Any other ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I'm willing to just it directly from the battery.

It won't hurt the starter at all, but be prepared for a spark (the sparking normally takes place at the contacts inside the solenoid cap).
I usually just use a screwdriver across the two large terminals on the solenoid. Be sure the wheels are blocked and the transmission is in neutral because this by-passes everything.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Update: I did try jumping directly from the battery to the starter side of the solenoid (with the key in the run/on position). I had spark, but no starter function.
Also, I tighten a ground wire at the fuse block. Now I at least get a click at the solenoid when attempting to start. Guess I'll pull the starter and have it tested at Advance Auto.

Any other ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Assuming all electrical connections are sound, sounds like the starter itself has issues. You can remove the brush access cover and take a look at the comm and check brush spring tension.

 

[cnsJohn]

Bob,
Thanks again for the help. I'll have the starter tested and open it if it fails the test.

Thanks again.

JohnJ

 

[cnsJohn]

Bob,
Thanks again for the help. I'll have the starter tested and open it if it fails the test.

Thanks again.

JohnJ

 

[Bob Rooks]

Bob,
Thanks again for the help. I'll have the starter tested and open it if it fails the test.

Thanks again.

JohnJ

I would open it up anyway, at least to see if it has thrown any solder, or is frozen. Might save yourself a trip.

 

[cnsJohn]

I had the starter tested. Advance Auto's tester did not have a setting for the Jinma starter, so they used a GM starter spec. The starter turned, but the machine listed it as bad (amp draw issue). I think it was marked bad because the GM current draw spec was not exactly as the same as the Jinma. Still, the important part is that the starter did turn. I installed it back into the tractor, and received just a couple clicks before it went totally silent. I had tested the battery two weeks ago, but to be sure it was delivering sufficient current, I tried jumping from my truck. Same result, no sound at all. I would still suspect an electrical issue, since the starter turned at the store, but I get nothing when jumping directly across the solenoid. At this point, I'm suspecting it's a battery issue, but again it tested good on a 950 cold cranking amp load test.

I really welcome any ideas about what might be causing the dead starter issue?

 

[jacques54]

You can directly jump start with booster cable from another known battery to the big selenoide battery post (red lead) and directly ground to one engine bolt paint removed (black lead). Then take an old screwdriver between the small selenoide therminal and the red lead. Be sure you are in neutral. I have done it several time at job in -20° c and lower with a Revolt booster connected to four 8D battery.
Doing this you are bypassing all the tractor electrical system and must crank the engine.

Jacques

 

[Bob Rooks]

These starters could be expected to have a higher amperage draw because they are for diesel engines with higher compression ratios. Double check all your battery connections, make sure there is no rust, corrosion, or paint on the grounds.

 

[cleat]

And the cables themselves. I have owned cars that would not crank over and the battery cables were crumbling apart under the insulation.

 

[erj]

I don't understand the reluctance to open the starter up to look inside, look at brushes, etc. as Bob Rook suggested. Just because the starter turned does not mean that it is OK.

 

[cnsJohn]

The gold star goes to Bob Rooks. I opened the starter (mostly) and a small 3/16" ball bearing rolled out. I did not fully dissemble the starter since one of the two short screws in the end cap was striped (I'm guessing from the factory). Nonetheless, I pulled it apart and reassembled everything. Then I connected the starter directly to the batter and it spun. Encouraged, I put the solenoid on and installed the starter in the tractor. It turned right over. Unfortunately, something happened that has never happened before, the tractor started and died after about 3 seconds. Never had any trouble keeping the engine running before. Anyway, messed around trying to keep it running. After about 10 cranks, the starter went dead again.

Guess I'll be replacing the starter and then diagnosing why all of a sudden the dang thing wont stay running.

The pain, frustration, and expense continues.

 

[Bob Rooks]

If it's been sitting for awhile, check the air cleaner for critters. Also check the fuel filter and all the screens, including the ones in the sediment bowl and the fuel tank. Prime and bleed the fuel system. Of course the fuel was turned on . A possibility exists of critters (diesel bugs) in your fuel system too.