Fuel Boycott on the 19th !!

[slowrev]

Billy,
Yes we all need to spend more than we have coming in to support the economy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The way I see it if we all lived within our means the US economy would collapse.

 

[_RaT_]

"If the main reason for the oil price increase is China's demand for oil to make things to sell to the US, then the soloution is simple. Don't buy Chineese stuff and the demand for oil will go down and the prices will drop. And if you think that is really the cause I will sell you some ocean front land in KY for cheap."


If I understand you correctly, I think you believe it is purely conspiracy based. If that is the case, indeed boycott fuel on the 19th, all the power to you.
I would only suggest that Chinas demand adds to the problem, certainly not even remotely close to the sole reason. Their ever increasing thirst for oil feeds not only their international manufactuering output, but the developing auto, high rise, electrical generation etc., for a mass of people that dwarf the population of North America. We use oil for far more then manufactuering. Oil is used for road asphalt, plastics, airline, electrical generation etc., China is no different, just at a different degree of development. Perhaps a trip there may open your eyes to just how developed they are becoming. India as well. Some of the problems I see and have read about (not here at TBN) are less value for the US dollar (which is what oil trades in around the world), and as mentioned, less competition, in California, dimished refinery capacity along with a continually increasing demand, instability in the world markets in general (understandable). It all adds to the ingriedients necessary for increased fuel and other oil related costs. I don't suggest I like it. You can keep you Kentucky Ocean property.

 

[Junkman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If the main reason for the oil price increase is China's demand for oil to make things to sell to the US, then the soloution is simple. Don't buy Chineese stuff and the demand for oil will go down and the prices will drop. And if you think that is really the cause I will sell you some ocean front land in KY for cheap.

If the price of crude is the only reason for high gas prices then why did the price go gas go up a LOT faster than the price for a barrell of oil. I think that consolidation/mergers in the oil industry have removed any illusion of competition from the gasoline industry and we pay what they want. )</font>

China is an emerging modern country and their use of petroleum products is going up daily. Another reason for the shortage of crude oil on the world market is that Iraq is not producing oil like it had been before the invasion. The oil that it previously produced was shipped to Russia and other close border countries and those countries are now competing with the rest of the world for the available crude oil supply. There is no one that understands the present oil supply problem better than our present President. It has been his and his families major business endeavor for over the past 40 years. One more problem to add to the mix is that Alaska does everything that it can do to make sure that every drop of oil that is taken from its state goes in the direction that it desires. They have successfully lobbied for stopping any type of oil and/or gas distribution lines that would go in any direction that wouldn't benefit the economy of Alaska first. They don't care about the rest of the county and have kept the Alaska to Michigan pipe line from happening for many years now. It is closer to move natural gas to Michigan and hook up to existing pipelines than it is to go South to California to hook up the natural gas lines there. This is just one example of why things cost so much to get accomplished in the US of A. Every politician is out for what is best for his state before what is best for the country. Add into that the "good old boy" network and you will understand why everything costs so much. Government waste is rampant in this country and no one cares enough to try to stop it from past and present President on down. Democrat and Republican alike. The only thing that will help to keep the oil prices from going up is if we finally put into place a realistic energy policy that rewards for saving energy. When the administration under Jimmy Carter issued tax credits for insulating and other energy conservation and energy saving products, the technology was put into place. When was the last time that you saw a home with a solar water heater panel on the roof. Most of the systems that were installed are 20 years old and there are no maintenance people to work on them or the repair parts to fix them. For the most part, that industry just went away. There are many things that we can do, but the pay back isn't there, so it isn't done. If there was a tax credit for purchasing a hybrid vehicle that gave better mileage, people would buy it for the tax savings and the production costs would start to come down. Why pay a high price for a vehicle just because it is energy efficient and the difference between the cost of the vehicle doesn't make up the cost savings of the fuel? People won't spend $2.00 to save a $1.00, no matter how much you try to tell them it is good for the country. People do what is best for themselves first and the county second, in most instances when it comes to energy conservation.

 

[_RaT_]

Junkman, we have more solar panels, solar heating, wind generation, hybrid cars, and every other incentive here in California then you can imagine. Energy efficient homes get rebates and lowered interest rates. Solar panels get a $3200 rebate for every 1000 watts generated. You assement may be idicitive of your region, it bares no resemblance to ours.
Economic woes in Venezuela are impacting US imports more than problems in the Middle East. US imports from Venezuela were down 19% in 2003, and Venezuela, Mexico, Canada, and Saudi Arabia are the US's main suppliers, at about 15% each. The easiest way to reduce the price is to either decrease demand or increase supply. OPEC makes sure that they will receive what they determine is what they want for a barrel of oil. We can't control that, but we can manipulate the demand and even to a smaller extent, the supply.

I'm going to go find the site that had where our oil comes from. It was interesting and eye opening. Rat...


Interesting oil figures

 

[slowrev]

Rat,
Not a conspiracy but a business policy resulting from the mergers of oil companies to the exclusion of competition.

 

[DAP]

Can anyone name a instance when the U.S. economy was in the dumper and we were NOT in or on the verge of a robust military excursion?

The military industrial complex has always been the politician's solution to correct the bottom cycle of the economic, social and political mysery index.

I simply cannot name an instance of economic downturn without a military industrial complex response.

Can you?

The correlation is blatant. And cultural.

 

[Junkman]

Rat....... thanks for that information. While your rebate or tax credits are given by the state, not the Federal government, makes a world of difference. I don't know or pretend to know all the different tax consequences of energy savings for all of the different states, I do know that it must be done on a Federal level if it is to be effective overall. California has had a energy crisis for many years and that is probably what got them to the point that they finally figured out that tax credits work.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> Can anyone name a instance when the U.S. economy was in the dumper and we were NOT in or on the verge of a robust military excursion? </font>
How about the Great Depression of 1929? WWI had been over for about a decade and WWII wouldn't start for about another decade.

 

[_RaT_]

A solar house with 24 panels can produce about 3200 watts during peak sun. It is at this time that "eNet" customers receive the most money for their power produced by their panels. It is all kept track of by a special meter. The hours are from 12 noon to 6 PM. It is also when they get charged the most for the electricity they use. It encourages those folks who generate power to avoid using an AC unit during noon to 6PM but also gives them a generous reward for doing so. The energy devolpment and technology is alive and well in this state. For all the issues we have, there are a lot of great things happening. You are correct, it is a local thing, nothing mandated by the Feds, I kinda like it that way. It's up to each state to either get with it or suffer the consequences.

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> The reality is we are too dependant upon oil and there are some serious supply versus demand issues. Add the enviornmental concerns about drilling in Alaska and that cuts the supply. Add the desire to drive a HUMMER, Explorer, Blazer, etc and that increases the demand. </font>

We are not too dependant on oil. We have too much greed for oil. The first two times that oil prices jumped greatly (1973-1974 and 1979-1980), the buying habits of the American consumer adapted to the changing conditions around them. They bought Hondas and Datsuns, and the American auto makers also adapted to the changing demand from the consumers. When demand in automobile types swing from one end to the other, it takes a few years for them to bring these changes to the showrooms. In the current case, most auto makers are pretty much only selling SUV's and four door trucks (I pointed out the other day that Toyota, for example, is selling FIVE different SUV models!), and when consumers finally reach that psychological barrier in the gas prices to make them change their spending habits, many of the car companies will be scrambling to catch up.

This time, I don't think this will happen, at least not until gasoline prices go a little higher. The greed of the American consumers is too great, and they would rather go into more debt to keep everything they have (including their large gas-guzzling SUV's) than to change their spend habits in giving up something that they really don't need.

I would agree with oil drilling in Alaska if it were for the right reasons. Additonal oil drilling should be done to reduce dependence on foreign oil, not becuase American consumers have a bad habit that needs supplied. I'm not an environmentalist wacko, but I also believe that people should be buying cars that they actually need, instead of buying a $60,000 SUV only because it looks expensive when other people see them in it.
It's all about people taking responsibility for their own actions.