Fuel Injector Setting spring pressure

[mllud]

I have a 1962 203 backhoe that I just went through cleaning the injectors and fuel lines.
One injector had both holes on the injector nozzle plugged. the high pressure line on that injector was also plugged up.
In the process of taking the injectors apart I lost the position of the nut that adjusts the spring pressure for the needle valve. Is there a initial setting for setting the spring pressure. A starting point!
I know injectors are adjusted by pressure on a special set up for that job but I'm not equipped with that equipment.
I'm looking for a starting point.

History
I put a seal kit in the injector pump and the tractor was running fine accept for the miss due to the clogged injector. I cleaned and repaired all the fuel lines on the tractor. The return lines to the tank were also plugged with gunk. I believe that high sulfer fuel had been used for years. Tank was also cleaned.
Right now I have strong fuel coming out of all three lines up to the injectors. Perkins A3-152. I just need a starting point on adjusting those springs pressure.
I have rebuilt several Lucas cav pumps and it ran fine up to me chasing why it had a miss. I found that and cleaned it up. Today I couldn't get it started. I was getting some intermittent firing. I really suspect the injector spring pressure.
All help appreciated

Sorry about the long path to the point. Trying to fill the gaps.

 

[thepumpguysc]

No, there is no "initial setting".. U could measure the adjuster on another injector... BUT that's no guarantee..

 

[Roadworthy]

I have never worked on an injector. I have worked on other stuff. If you're up for suggestions and they're made this way take a working injector and begin tightening against the spring very carefully counting turns and partial turns. Note the number. Now turn it back out to where you started. Take the injector in question. Assuming they use the same type spring tighten it down all the way. Now back it out the same amount as the other one. Who knows? It may even work.

 

[PatrickS2222]

I have a MF40 with the same engine, but I'm unfortunately not much help in that I've never done any injector work on it. I'd reckon one idea is to take that injector to any diesel specialist, ask them to clean, set and test it, and you then refit it (with a new seal of course). That's the minimum .... doing this with all three injectors is a much better idea - it's your tractor and it will last only as long as you want it to. It's a backhoe and loader ... what a useful machine! Keep us informed!

 

[Agvg]

Should not cost much to adjust them right, this adjustment is very critical as it has to do with timing and fuel distribution in the cylinders, bad injectors can kill a engine over time.

 

[radios1]

measure the torque on a good injector with a torque wrench?..

 

[RickB]

Tripping over dollars to pick up pennies.

 

[mllud]

The timing is in the injector pump is fine The previous owner is a friend. He ran the tractor for four hours the day before I bought it from him.
I replaced all the seals and o- rings in his lucas cav pump a month before I bought it. I didn't change the timing plates because if it was running when it started leaking .the timing is fine. I know what I'm doing with lucas cav pumps. My new Holland has one but the injectors on that are not adjustable like these.
It had one cylinder not firing because of a clogged line. I started with the fuel tank and cleaned the whole system. This is an old mechanical fuel injectors. I cleaned them after soaking in carb cleaner over night. They look good mechanically and the nozzles spray a straight stream when shooting carb cleaner through them.

This is what I did today. I was able to flex an injector line back far enough to install the injector with the nozzle end up. That allows me to adjust the injector by cranking the engine between each adjustment until I get a good spray pattern. I did have time to get all three spraying fuel. I tried that and got all three injectors consistent and it is trying to run. I think I have it giving a little to much fuel and not atomized enough I ran short on time today because of family dinner. Ill go through the same procedure tomorrow taking more time getting a more atomized spray. Only worked an hour today.
Unfortunately I don't have another injector to reference from. I'm gaining.

The diesel guys want me to bring the pump in to. I'm not pulling a running pump. Then he will find a fictional problem with that. It was running and working on 2 cylinders. When ken was using it but it was hard to hear the miss at high rpms. Its not good to run it like that. He wouldn't have used it if he had known. I'm fixing it.
I can buy new nozzles for 20 dollars each but they aren't damaged and the needles fit nice and this adjustment would still needs to be made.
There aren't any tractor dealers that have a test table to do this. All they do is sell you a new one. They threw out the test table and their REAL diesel mechanic retired or died. Now they just change parts
I haven't ever paid a mechanic. I'm 64 and do my own work. I don't usually spend money on loosing outcomes. I know this tractor. You have to make it work.

I would buy a new tractor with a warranty if I didn't want to do some work on it. I just replaced all the power steering hose by buying j.i.c swivel end hoses and bought brake lines and brazed up new ends. $ 125.00 for all new hoses. Dealer wants 75 for one. Some guys get satisfaction from doing this. My pockets aren't empty but not deep enough to feed the dealer. The guys that work on pumps like to put the fear of death if you work on a pump. The Lucas cav distributor type injector pump isn't anything like the old piston injector pumps. You do need to be careful with timing and be careful on assembly. You can disassemble and replace all the seals and O-rings and install a new front vane pump without changing anything on the timing.
Fix it yourself or buy a new one. Parts and labor can outweigh the cost of a 4,000 dollar tractor on the first or second trip to the dealer.
Ken the previous owner of this tractor just went and bought a 22,000 dollar Kabota. He doesn't want the repairs. He is 73. I love his new tractor but am happy to have his 203. He only had the 203 for six months. Ill get past the 30 years of lack of care. I believe the power steering hoses were 57 years old. One leak and a lot of flaking rubber.

I'm going to dig all the trenches to install the lines for a ground source heat pump with the backhoe. A tool can pay for itself the first or second time you use it.

 

[RickB]

Send the injectors to a diesel shop where they are trained and equipped to to what you think you can do without proper tooling. The cost is negligible and you might possibly save yourself more serious engine damage caused by faulty injectors you have improperly repaired. Yes, tractor dealerships typically are not trained nor equipped to repair fuel system components. That has become a specialized field and not exclusively because all the old guys that used to do it are retired or dead.

Like I said before, you are tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. But they are your pennies. If you cannot bring yourself to write a check for diesel shop labor go out and find a pop tester with a good gauge on it and do a decent job of what you are currently guessing at.

 

[radios1]

try one of these on the nozzle. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078GDYF59/ref=psdc_15727741_t2_B072F2JDJV

 

[LouNY]

I would recommend sending the injectors out, it is the easy way out.
That said I know people that have used their porta powers by adding a pressure gauge and filling with diesel fuel,
but looking at that price of the pump and gauge setup radios1 posted I wouldn't bother messing with a porta power.

 

[mllud]

I appreciate your opinion but this injector is not available as a unit and l lot of the parts aren't available accept used. All I called say the rebuild pumps but want to work with only new injectors.
By flexing out a fuel line I'm able to watch the spray pattern. They can't change the point of it opening. That's determined by spring pressure and pump timing giving a shot of fuel. The lucas pump is cam driven pump timing so to adjust timing on one injector will change all three.
All the shop can do is adjust by visual spray pattern. Visual not technical.
I don't want to wash out my cylinders but with these injectors it either wont run or there will be a visual problems with the exhaust like excessive smoke. Too little fuel and it won't run.
I did call and they specialize in rebuilding pumps and want to start with new injectors. I understand their point because a used injector could make their pump rebuild look bad.
The only parts I found was new nozzles and a sealing washer set. All they could do is adjust to what they consider a good visual spray pattern. I have enough experience to go back and forth with the spray pattern until its atomizing a good spray I'm using my injector pump to adjust the spray pattern. This is 1962 technology.
I was able today to flex one injector line back far enough to use that line to adjust all three injector spray patterns. Plus i'm adjusting to my pump which will be more accurate.

The penny's an dollar thing doesn't apply with me. I'm new to the forum but not a rookie. I was looking for an answer that I knew wasn't really out there. I fell flat on google
As I said I'm 64 and never paid a mechanic. Iv never done anything that screwed up an engine. A diesel exhaust pipe says a lot if you know what your looking at.

 

[radios1]

complete fuel injectors. Massey Ferguson 203 Fuel Injector - 734596M91

 

[mllud]

Radios
I would like to get one of those test pumps.
I have been looking for one of those test tables that shops use. I like working on those Lucas injection pumps. Its not heavy work and rebuilding them could maybe make a few bucks.

 

[mllud]

complete fuel injectors. Massey Ferguson 203 Fuel Injector - 734596M91

Radios
That would he a bargain. Mine are pictured in post #1. They are huge. I would have to see in the seat and nozzle are the same. I would also need a new return line. its on top with those advertised. I think that's a later version. I tried getting interchange information before but didn't get any answers.
They look all wrong. don't have my serial plate. I misplaced it. it will show up

 

[Agvg]

Find it strange that a serious tractor workshop don't have a simple nozzle tester, checking injectors is quite common on older equipment. Should not be more than a hour to do test and adjustment, no MF dealers in the area?

 

[mllud]

Find it strange that a serious tractor workshop don't have a simple nozzle tester, checking injectors is quite common on older equipment. Should not be more than a hour to do test and adjustment, no MF dealers in the area?

If they did ,with a labor rate of $ 120 an hour it would be more beneficial to buy a simple nozzle tester for future use. Things may be different in other country's or in around the cities here but out here if you have an old tractor you work on it. In my first post I was looking for an initial setting. and there isn't one. I now have one injector line on the tractor that has enough flex to allow me to invert the injector and make adjustments to set up the injectors watching the spray pattern. I found that starting point I needed yesterday. I didn't have much time yesterday because of family visiting.
I will get them adjusted. I have never seen a Massey Ferguson dealer in my area. I googled on a dealer finder and got one in Kansas city on the other side of the state. A local N.H. dealer sells parts but has to order them. I can order the same parts online without paying his markup. There are a lot of parts on a i962 203 that are not available new.
A lot of the dealer websites wont even let you look on their website unless you agree to let them load their cookies. Then they can spam you to no end. I click the back arrow. leaches

 

[thepumpguysc]

U can take them in.. or go thru the top w/ a caliper & measure the distance from the adjuster to the top of the lock nut..
BUT if you've monkyed w/ all of them, its to late.
I know what your trying to do w/ "getting the spray pattern".. but let me say this & u can take it for what its worth..
You can have a GOOD spray pattern at 100 rpm & u can have a good spray pattern at 2000 rpm.. it doesnt mean your setting the PRESSURE correctly..
& THATS what u need a "pop tester" for.. to SET the OPENING PRESSURE..
& once u set the OP, THEN u check for spray pattern, chatter & leakage..
Spray pattern means nothing if the OP is incorrect..
But if that method works for you..I say go for it..
BTW> I test injectors for free.. & quite frankly, any decent fuel shop would..

 

[aczlan]

A lot of the dealer websites wont even let you look on their website unless you agree to let them load their cookies. Then they can spam you to no end. I click the back arrow. leaches

Ummm, browser cookies don't let them spam you and pretty much every modern browser has a "private mode" that gets rid of all of the cookies when you close the browsing session.

Aaron Z

 

[mllud]

U can take them in.. or go thru the top w/ a caliper & measure the distance from the adjuster to the top of the lock nut..
BUT if you've monkyed w/ all of them, its to late.
I know what your trying to do w/ "getting the spray pattern".. but let me say this & u can take it for what its worth..
You can have a GOOD spray pattern at 100 rpm & u can have a good spray pattern at 2000 rpm.. it doesnt mean your setting the PRESSURE correctly..
& THATS what u need a "pop tester" for.. to SET the OPENING PRESSURE..
& once u set the OP, THEN u check for spray pattern, chatter & leakage..
Spray pattern means nothing if the OP is incorrect..
But if that method works for you..I say go for it..
BTW> I test injectors for free.. & quite frankly, any decent fuel shop would..

pumpguy

That's some goods information. I'm sure cranking with the starter is closer to 100 rpm's than 2000. All three were disassembled before I realized I had lost the adjustment so taking a measurement wont work. I do see what you are saying. It seems that it would have to have a good spray pattern at cranking speed to start. I can see how it could want to chatter on the compression stroke if set with to light spring pressure. Ill look online at a pop tester. I seen in another thread you said the opening pressure is 22-2500 psi. That's what I need. I have a fluid filled high pressure gauge and a pump that is air over hydraulic on a car scissor lift that I would have good pressure control. Getting the fitting adapted to hook it up could be a problem. Those pop testers have the fittings. Ill either look at ordering a pop tester or try the local tractor shop again. Ill walk in instead of calling.
Thanks ,That information helps
It has a poor battery that doesn't crank well. I'm going to use my skid steer battery when I get them set. I will get them set at 22-2500 psi.
My skid steer wasn't starting well until I bought the new battery. Taxes and Christmas coming up has my money strapped right now.

Pumpguy, Is the fitting on the injector a standard fitting that I could buy? The ferrel is round. I think not standard. If I had an old line I could braze up an adaptor

Aaron Z
I have my internet options set to delete after leaving but every place I visit I get adds pertaining to what they sell or what I looked at. I'm not sure how to stop it.