Full Frame

[EhM8]

Old tractors all had a riveted frame, to hang a marine diesel to, and some shafts and chain sprockets.. Henry Ford and Harry Ferguson took the approach of integrating the engine into the frame, to make them stiffer and build cheaper.

The major disadvantage is that you need an engine, specifically designed as a tractor engine (to be able to be of structural support to the tractor) because an automotive engine doesnt have the reinforcements.
A tractor engine is often too heavy for on-road use. That was the concession that Case had to make when they chose to co-develope their new engine line with Cummins, back in 1981. Because an engine designed to be used as a tractor frame part, would be too heavy and uneconomical to fit a Dodge truck, they went with a light industrial style engine block, which meant that Case had to use a front frame.

On the other hand, when the frame structure is integrated into the engine, the engine is generally stiffer and would deform less during operation.


The only advantage i see in the JD frames, is that its easier to mount a side arm ditch mower, front loader or front 3pt hitch. Because the frame rails are at a wider spacing, they provide more lateral strength than bare engine and gearbox castings, which will need an additional subframe with rear axlebars.


Old fergies came in 2 varieties: Those with, and those without front frame. I think it had to do with it having the Standard, or the Perkins engine.

Yes, I've seen plenty of tractors that have the front frame. Both the Belarus and the old Inter I had, had the frame on the front. That is something I forgot to mention that the full frame provides an attachment point. I have the Case that has the additional frame that goes back to the rear added with the loader. As you often need the extra weight with a smaller tractor anyway, this isn't a big issue for me. I will maybe consider either a JXU80 or a JD 5020 series full-frame tractor made in germany as my next tractor purchase, but I don't think the full-frame will be the deciding factor. CNH seem to be sticking with Cummins still - seems a few of their Iveco engines are actually cummins design - I wonder if when Iveco makes them if they are strengthening the engine block. I noticed though my neighbours CVX had Sisu Diesel stamped on the engine.

 

[Trac-Tech]

Just one thing to check will be the front wheel track width. Usually the frame tractors need a wider track to allow the same turning circle as a tracor with a stressed block. The frame does make loader mounting easier, but it does come at a cost of track width. This may or may not be an issue for you in your application. If your in vineyard or row crop work, you will need to consider this. If your in a normal ag situation, then it won't be so much of an issue. Have you looked at any other brands other than JD and Case? You will find most of the Perkins powered tractors in that power range will have a stressed block. Best of luck with your purchase.

 

[EhM8]

Just one thing to check will be the front wheel track width. Usually the frame tractors need a wider track to allow the same turning circle as a tracor with a stressed block. The frame does make loader mounting easier, but it does come at a cost of track width. This may or may not be an issue for you in your application. If your in vineyard or row crop work, you will need to consider this. If your in a normal ag situation, then it won't be so much of an issue. Have you looked at any other brands other than JD and Case? You will find most of the Perkins powered tractors in that power range will have a stressed block. Best of luck with your purchase.

I run a livestock enterprise - so it is direct drilling legumes into grass country and experimenting with this pasture cropping thing that is developing here. I have a ROPS tractor at the moment, and most of the time I prefer it to having a cab, but now I am boom spraying a bit, and one of the chemical they use in pasture cropping is Sprayseed, it would probably be a bit healthier to have a cab. Locally, we only have CNH, JD and Kobota dealers. The New Holland Dealer had McCormick for a while, but doesn't seem to be stocking them anymore. What are the four cylinder perkins like on fuel, do you know? They seem to be making power at lower revs than the equivalent Iveco/Cummins engines in the CNH tractors.

 

[flusher]

The only advantage i see in the JD frames, is that its easier to mount a side arm ditch mower, front loader or front 3pt hitch. Because the frame rails are at a wider spacing, they provide more lateral strength than bare engine and gearbox castings, which will need an additional subframe with rear axlebars.


Old fergies came in 2 varieties: Those with, and those without front frame. I think it had to do with it having the Standard, or the Perkins engine.

My 1964 MF-135 with the Perkins diesel has the typical arrangement with engine serving as tractor frame. Make removing the oil pan a real job since that pan is a heavy casting insteady of a lightweight sheet metal part.

 

[radman1]

Frame vs no frame is probably a combination of engineering requirements vs cost. Most small, newer tractors have no frames, with some exceptions. On midsize, there are mostly straight frames MFWD tractors but some no frame tractors. Also on the midsize the blocks and tranies are short in overall wheelbase and can manage without frames if the components are engineered strong enough. On current, larger ag tractors, the frames are "sculpted" to allow the large MFWD front wheels to get closer to the engine for better turning radius. The sculpted frames curve in toward the engine and have become popular in the past 10 years. Usually made of cast iron. The higher HP large ag tractors are longer, heavier, can have dual MFWDs and require frames that seem massive. They also are often fitted with 500-750 gallon saddle tanks for spraying or liquid fertilizer application. These are also mounted on the frames between the front and rear tires and/or on the front of the tractor. These can add several thousand lbs of additional wt. Bouncing through a field results in a lot of stress on the frames and the mounting brackets are thick steel. Our 600 total gallon saddle tanks have cracked the 1" thick mounting plates in the past.

 

[Trac-Tech]

Where abouts are you located? There have been a few changes in the McCormick network here in Aus. If you would rather pm me, I can check out the nearest dealer from you. As far as fuel economy goes from the Perkins 1104T engine, I believe that you will find it very comparable with other brands.
The reality is that there are some brands that are heavier on fuel and some that are more misery, but they aren't that far away from one another.
Anyway, if there is any more I can do for you, either let me know from here or drop me a pm.
All the best & cheers.

 

[Renze]

I noticed though my neighbours CVX had Sisu Diesel stamped on the engine.

Your neighbours CVX is a rebadged Steyr- an Austrian brand which was taken over by Case in 1996. Later, Case was taken over by NH to form CNH

Steyr has worked with Valtra/Valmet/Sisu, and in the 80's also with Deutz.
The Case IH CVX was sold as 9000 CVT series by Steyr, and were developed before 1996 when Steyr was using mostly Sisu engines, and purchased their bigger models from Valmet (Which Valmet had being built at the French Massey Ferguson plant in Beauvais, with their own cab but MF dynashift rear end: MF also used sisu/valmet engines since that era)

 

[plowrup]

It looks like a cross between our old 6020 Series and the new 6030 Series-great Tractors, and we have never touched a Clutch in one of those due to them being a multi-disc, oil bathed unit.

Great Tractors, we sell a lot of them. As for the Frame desing, it is nothing really new-CIH has used it, but it does take the stress off of the Engine Block and Transmission Case-

 

[slowzuki]

Looking over some other machines, almost anything with a loader gets plate rails from nose to cab anyways so it isn't a huge change. Strange enough on my little kubota, no plate on the front but braces from the mounts back like some old loaders.