Fun with rocks

wroughtn_harv · Mar 1, 2004

( just don't ask this old man to help u move it )

I understand completely. That's the beauty of dowel pins. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It breaks down so we won't. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

GRUB · Mar 4, 2004

Harv,
I am always building with rock but never thought of fastening them. I am interested in a little more of the details like what type of drill bit, and is the dowl just rebar? Nice work as always!
GRUB

wroughtn_harv · Mar 4, 2004

( I am always building with rock but never thought of fastening them. I am interested in a little more of the details like what type of drill bit, and is the dowl just rebar? )

My first choice in dowel material is stainless, no rust. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I do quite a bit of work involving placing fence etc on concrete. So over time I've picked up a drill and trick or two. I've figured out there is nothing on gawd's green earth to compare with Hilti for drilling in rock and or concrete. Well, except for a checkbook of course. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I've got bits from three sixteenths up to five inches for the Hiltis. They're masonary of course and work either with a hammer feature or without it.

What is challenging and fun about using the dowel principle is trying to make a hidden attachment that is mechanically sound.

You take the big slab table for instance. One of the challenges is when a drill goes through the other side it's not unlike what happens when a fool uses a hollow point on game. So I first went through with a half inch bit, the same size as the pilot pit on the two and a half inch bit. When I got to where I figured I was was within a half inch or so of the other side I changed from hammer to just drill. I still had a blow out but it was only about the size of a quarter.

This allowed me to drill down a little over half way with the two and a half inch bit from one side and then do the rest of the hole from the other side.

One of the problems with stone and cement is vibration is it's worst enemy. I had alread drilled a two and a half inch hole in the pedestal stone about six inches deep. But if I just put the top on over the pedestal, lined up the holes, and then filled it with Quick Rok there would be no safety factor if a fracture occured. I would in fact have nothing much more secure than just placing the slab over the pedestal.

I put a piece of two and three eighths pipe about eight inches inside the matched holes. Then I filled the cavity with Quick Rok. The piece of pipe is the safety factor. Even if the Quick Rok fractures across the joint the pipe will maintain it's integrity.

A good source of materials for working with rock this way is a granite countertop equipment supply shop. They carry a two part epoxy that'll enable you to take a trip without leaving the farm if mix it in an unventilated area. Stuff is mean. But they use it to join granite and it works.

They also carry grinding stones of varying degrees of grit. They're reasonable and fit you standard five eighths shaft angle grinder. These are invaluable when fitting stones. You can grind it down with a coarse and then polish away your grinding marks with a fine.

Sorta funny how it's all similar but different, steel, stone, and wood, when it comes to techniques. Of course with stone you never get that fit you can with steel or good hardwood. It's either a little sloppy or a little tight. And forcing it when tight most often introduces you to disaster and disappointment. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

One of these days someone's going to have the money to give me the time to make a project I've wanted to do for years.

I'd like to forge a tree out of iron. And where there would be a cluster of leaves I'd like to have stone. The stone would have hollows for moss roses etc.

I think it'd be just plain old pretty.

I'm also working on doing a rock rocker. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That'd be too kewel for words.

GRUB · Mar 5, 2004

Thanks for the extra info Harv, I still have a couple questions.
Hilti = the best for both drill and the bit?

piece of two and three eighths pipe = stainless?, and do you ever use solid dowles?

Quick Rok = hydraulic cement? where do you use the epoxy?

Sorry to be so ignorant about the materials you are so familiar with but I just don't have any experience with them.

wroughtn_harv · Mar 5, 2004

( Thanks for the extra info Harv, I still have a couple questions.
Hilti = the best for both drill and the bit?)

If you're not a contractor or construction company your best source for Hilti is pawn shops. You walk in off the street and you're going to pay list price. I walk in and because I'm a business customer my price is forty percent less.

Their drills just work better. I don't know why. They just do.

Their drill bits are better too. The little Hilti uses SDS which are available at the box stores. The big Hilti uses SDS Max which are usually only available at specialty tool stores.

I've had great luck at the Dewalt--Black and Decker factory stores for drill bits. Some of my bits like a one inch SDS Max retail for forty or so. But a time or two I've hit the lottery at the factory store and got them for ten to twenty bucks.

I bought a two and half inch Hilti bit from a friend cleaning out his storage unit. It broke and would have been covered by Hilti warranty. But I didn't have a record of buying that bit from them so I lost out. I think the one I got from them was in the neighborhood of two hundred and fifty dollars.

( piece of two and three eighths pipe = stainless?, and do you ever use solid dowles?)

The two and three eighths was galvanized pipe. I prefer solid dowl pins. Everything from quarter inch to one and a half inch, depending upon the application. I pay about two dollars a pound for scrap stainless. And the stuff is heavy. Some two inch solid bar I bought a couple of months ago ended up costing like twenty two dollars a foot.

I use mild steel when I don't have stainless. But if it's going to be getting wet stainless is the only dog to hunt with.

( Quick Rok = hydraulic cement? where do you use the epoxy?)

Quick Rok, hydraulic cement fractures just as easy as rocks and concrete will. I like using it for a leveling medium. If I still have a rocking fit and I can't seem to eliminate it with the grinding and or chisels. I'll put in a little Quick Rok and let it set up. When it's hard the rocking usually stops.

Quick Rok also works great in places where you're less interested in adhesive and more in fit. The epoxy is preferable where an adhesive is required.

( Sorry to be so ignorant about the materials you are so familiar with but I just don't have any experience with them.)

I know exactly where you're coming from. The other day a puter enlightened bud had to almost take me by the hand to get a firewall installed here. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I hope you take some of my ideas and encourage them to do what I never gave them time to do.

Go for the double take. The double take is when someone sees something and has to do a quick second look because it doesn't look natural or possible.

I like that.

jmc · Mar 6, 2004

Recently I saw a truck that was painted up to advertise their granite countertop installation business. Their slogan: "I was a rock, now I'm an island."

JDgreen227 · Mar 6, 2004

Your tables are a work of art....wish I could find some nice rocks like yours around here. While I likely have close to ten tons of fieldstone in all sizes lying around our property, few if any are attractive enough to display indoors. And no way would my wife let me put any rocks indoors.

So, I spend a lot of time making planters and other outdoor displays with my stones. The best thing I can say about rocks is that they are low maintenance, never need watering, oil changes, a tune up, painting, etc. It's great to have something that thrives on neglect.

Boone · Mar 8, 2004

Hi Harv,
Nice looking table, with room for a lizard on top. I checked out a library video by Bill Childs on cutting stone. Very interesting, he was using a drill and then Feather and Wedges.

http://www.stonemasonry.net/index.htm

wroughtn_harv · Mar 8, 2004

Wouldn't it be great to get lessons on how to do all this neat stuff?

If my ship ever comes in and there's anything left of the port, well, I'm going to a lot of school attending. Any how to class will do.

Oh well, maybe tomorrow I'll take the camera and we'll have some fun making a roll cage for a Sullair 185 compressor. I've got the pipe, the Hossfield bender, the welder, and about as many ideas as one man can have and still walk without severe stumbling. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif