Fun with square tubing too

   / Fun with square tubing too #41  
Harv, I want to build a 16' gate with a smooth hump in the the top rail sort of like a camel's back. There would be two top rails about 6 inches apart and a straight bottom rail. I will weld on uprights spaced 6" apart. I want to use 1 1/4" square tubing for the frame. I would prefer to use aluminum. If it is not clear what I am talking about I could make a drawing. I saw a gate like this at a fence supply company but they wanted $70/ft to build one. I want to build my own for a lot less. I can even cast the little finials they used on the upright pieces.

My question is how would one go about making large radius bends like this and keep them looking right. I guess I could build some large diameter disks from MDF if that is the only way but I though you would probably know how to do it right. I don't remember if you had a gate like this in the pictures that you posted but I did not want to spend the time to look back through them as I don't have a fast link and it took a long time to look at them the first time. My wife complained them about the time I spent on this computer and now she is hungry so she is likely to pop in here at any moment and give me the business.

I was right, she just came in and I am catching h$%^.
 
   / Fun with square tubing too
  • Thread Starter
#42  
Evening Don,

Glad to see I'm not the only to get the eye for spending time on da puter!

Here's the thing on the square tubing. It will bend nice and pretty. But, and this butt is Rosanne Barr dimensions, if it slips while pulling the bend it will collapse. Uh oh, and over again.

What I'd do if I was wanting what you are would be to build me a pattern out of say quarter by one and a half on a table. Then I'd clamp my square tubing firmly, picture the previously mentioned butt in your mind for reference on just how tight to clamp, at one end. Then I'd pull my bend.

I have a roller. Chances are you can stop in at an iron shop and have them roll it for a twelve pack or so. But with it rolled you're gonna have the welds at the end of the roll where it meets the horizontal piece.

I've also done it with heat. By that I mean heating and cooling to shrink one side. That works but only if the bend is slow and you've got plenty of patience.

I'll be posting some pictures of some hand rail we're doing. I'm bending half by one and a half bar stock the hard way with just a little jig I made and a three pound hammer. It won't be long and I'll have a Popeye right side and Olive Oil left side. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

But it works fine, just hard work and practice. I can do that.
 
   / Fun with square tubing too #43  
harv-I have seen many of your posts and have an appreciation for metal work too. Since you mentioned square tubing earlier I thought I would send you a picture. I don't know if this would interest you, but I pay people to haul this away. You local Yamaha dealer should have the same thing. SOME models come in these crates and I find it useful for many things. I have made about 15 workbenches out of it for the cost of some wire and Argon. Only U.S. models come in the good crates, Japanese model crates are pretty worthless metal.
 

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   / Fun with square tubing too #44  
Here is a picture of a bench (finished version will have a top and straight leg). The steel is about 1/16th inch thick, 1 inch square tubing. Not as sturdy as what you like, but it is free.
 

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   / Fun with square tubing too #45  
Good day Harv!

The type of curve I want to bend is called a bell curve I think. At least that is what one place called it. I attached a drawing of something similar to what I want to do. What I still don't undertand is how to get such a large curve to be uniform and the same on both ends.
 

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   / Fun with square tubing too
  • Thread Starter
#46  
That's a nice looking bench. And I'm with you when it comes to things being free means they're worth ten times the price.

Actually most of the stuff I do is on someone elses nickle. So the cost of new is less than the cost of me cutting around and putting together used.

But I'm sure there are a bunch of guys here on the forum that are going to be visiting their Yamaha dealer this weekend.

That stuff is great for a lot of projects and it's perfect for practicing mig welding. Thanks for the tip.

BTW I have a local guy come in and haul off my scrap. He doesn't pay me for it but then I don't have to handle or pay someone to handle it either. So for me it's a great deal since the price of scrap is on par with the value of stock.
 
   / Fun with square tubing too
  • Thread Starter
#47  
Don't laugh Don. It isn't polite.

But, and this butt is of proverbial Barr proportions, I just do it.

First and foremost is it's almost impossible to have perfect duplication of bends because of the composition of the metal involved. So accepting that and the fact that the mind of the viewer will compensate for small imperfections, again, just do it.

Aluminum tube of about hundred and twenty thousandths will be the most forgiving and easiest to form. I would lay out a radius on the work bench. This might be anything from taking the end of a cable reel and using it to making a metal ring off of the pattern of a automobile wheel. Just something with a large radius. You want this firmly attached to the work bench. Then at a point that allows you the most room you put in a pin to work the tubing against.

It would look something like this ). The dot being your pin.

Now what I use is my hip. Sounds silly but you have a lot more control with your hip versus your arms when it comes to making repeated consistant moves. I'd wedge the aluminum between the ) and the . I'd then push against the )

The amount you push is miniscule, a lot less than what you'd think you'd need. The more less is more better.

Then I'd move the tubing about three inches and then push again trying to do exactly the same amount, the reason for the hip instead of the arm. Repeat as needed.

What I'd do is plan on when purchasing the material to allow for some incredible edible, learning curve consumable you might say. I'd play with this piece to get a feel for just how hard to push to get the curve I want without making it obviously a series of straight lines tied together.

Then I'd do one. First I'd bend the big curve. Turn the tubing around and pushing against the curve I just made I'd do the smaller tighter radius. I'd do the other. They don't match. That's when you bend this here or that there this one or the other until you have a matched close enough pair.

A couple of things will interest you about this process. First thing it is a little like investing in your retirement. If you look at just one segment it don't look like you've done squat. But when you look at it cumalatively you've done a lot.

The second thing is you will find a rythm for working the bend that will take over and the next thing you know you'll be as surprised as the wife about how easy it was and how nice it looks.

It wasn't until listening to a professional athelete describe being in the zone where it's all reaction and oneness with the event that I understood what was going on when I work. I become part of what's happening. I'm along for the ride I guess would be the best way to describe it. Even though I'm behind the wheel and it's my foot on the accelerator I'm still just a cog on the gear in the big picture.

If you can tig aluminum you have been there. You might not have recognised it but you were there. When you're doing the bend the same thing happens and it is fun.

There's a set of gates in Farmersville Texas that you'd like. They are nine feet tall where they meet in the middle. It's a pair covering a thirty eight foot opening.

The top rail is two by four fourteen gauge rectangular tubing. They've got the kind of curve you want. But instead of filagree I used a custom design between the top and second horizontal rails.

The customer had foolishly told me to just do what I do for design. They just wanted something nice. Easy for them to say. They are a drilling company with the big pier drilling rigs.

As I was looking at the finished frame I still hadn't found the design for the middle. The traditional scrolly stuff just didn't seem appropriate. Then I noticed an auger bit in my yard in profile. That design is so simple. It's like holding your hand with our fingers tight together like a flag on each side of vertical piece. So that's what I did. I cut out a shishkeepotfull of these pieces and welded them to three quarter verticals and you talk about being lucky? I got lucky.

Now to the point of that story. Think about how you would bend two by four fourteen gauge rectangular tubing without using brute force.

I cheated.

I took out the portaband and started making cuts. Everyone else I've ever seen use cuts to make a bend have cut the inside of the radius. Me being me I did the outside. I'd make a series of cuts then pull my bend where the gap would be about twice to three times max the width of the saw blade each cut. Now it doesn't sound like much. But think of giving your kids advice on retirement.

For the long sweeping bend I put the cuts farther apart and then for the tight bend coming back I put them much closer together.

Once I had two pieces almost exactly alike, nothing's perfect, I check all the time. I then tacked across the saw cuts. Then it was serious welding one oh one until it was done two oh two followed by grinding three oh three with polishing four oh four on it's butt saying "faster".

Now I understand some folks read that, draw a picture in their mind, and go off in a wonder land. Wondering why oh why would anyone do so much work.

You have to had been there. There when it was just an impossible dream. There when it was a maybe. There when it might work. There when it should work. There when it's gonna work. There when by gawd it did work. There when the customer was admiring it and then asked how it was done. There when I explained that it was really only a thing and not really that hard at all.
 
   / Fun with square tubing too #48  
Harv, thanks for the excellent description of how you would do this. It is what I expected but now I am more comfortable after reading your post. Actually this is pretty much the same way I have formed sheet metal into cylinders by incrementally bending them around trees or large pipes. I always wanted to build or buy a slip roll but I don't have room for one.

I like the way you bent the large rectangular tube. I would not hesitate to do something like that. High duty cycle MIG welders make it practical.

I hope I come up with a good design for my gate. I am building a hollow star out of sheet metal that I will put inside a ring in the center of the gate. The rest of the design is yet to be done.
 

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