Future Home Build - Hire a GC?

[cartod]

It all depends on the GC. People wait years for a good GC and that is what I did. I basically am the GC over my GC. He has been building homes since he was 22 and is 56 now. There is nobody that has a bad thing to say about him including me. The home that we are building now is very complex, and I would have been a fool to attempt it on my own. I am so glad we did it this way. We are 7 months in with 5 more to go and I am under budget because I over estimated the labor costs. He works on a percentage of material purchased + labor. Since he has all of his own eqt the labor costs are way down. The only eqt. He had to rent was a pumper truck to pour the basement walls.

 

[HillStreet]

Pettrix,

I built my three houses acting as my own GC in 1991, 2000, and 2010 ( the last one paid for itself). I would not do it any other way. I purchased the land, obtained all permits, bought all materials, arranged all inspections, bought insurance and did quite a bit of the work as a laborer where I could be useful. I am not a contractor or engineer but know how to plan things and hire the right people.

First and foremost, understand that you assume all risk. By that I mean make sure the land is approved as a buildable lot (wetlands, zoning, flood zones, drainage). And beware the possibility that animal habitats such as frog environments or vernal pools can give you a great deal of trouble and even halt your project. I made an offer on the land contingent upon 1 obtaining a building permit, 2 obtaining a septic permit from the local healtlh jurisdiction, 3 any extraordinary blasting requirements. That said, once the seller agreed to the offer, I immediately hired an excavator and soils scientist to assess soils and design a septic plan (about $900 for all), went to the building and zoning departments to ensure there were no problems based on zoning or encroachments. Now, knowing there are no big surprises, I proceeded with the land purchase.

Now you can put your plan in place. Key people really are the excavator and concrete guy. Concrete guy will price based on your plans, excavator has to walk the site to determine layout, shaping the property, drainage, driveway, etc. Once you hire these two contractors, insist that they meet on the site to ensure they agree on elevations and locations.

Once you're out of the ground, the stress seems to diminish, at least for me it did. Coordinate other underground stuff like power supply ( find out what power company, phone company, and cable needs for trenches or conduit). Start this early because utilities work on a slower schedule. If you have to cross a road with utilities, especially underground, it costs a bunch. Well driller can come as soon as concrete walls are poured so coordinate trench with excavator.

Lumberyards, electricians, framers, insulators, sheetrockers, painters, plumbers can create their bids based on plans. I called usually 3 of each unless I got a strong referral from friends. (I was new to my current area and did not have a lot of contacts here---- at my original home state I knew by word of mouth who to hire and not hire).

The rest is planning coordinating. On this last job, plumber and electrician got started as soon as roof and windows were in. They arranged inspections with town inspector ( they all know each other). Insulator was done in a day, sheetrockers were done in a week.

Now I had a building with electrical service and dry with heat running ( subfloor radiant heat) to do my painting, flooring, cabinets, doors and trim and basically finish the job.

Mind you, I built these houses and worked on the road, most of the week I was in hotels, so it's doable. I had confidence in the people I hired and just kept everything moving.

I know GCs that build a great house but I prefer to use my own specs. Call me old fashioned, but I do not like the floor truss systems in use today--- bouncy but fast to install. I insisted that my plumbing be copper pipe as I refused to use PEX (again, my preference).

From start of framing, I usually moved in within 4 months, with some work left to do but still comfortable.

I won't build another house only because I won't leave my present house on the hill-- this is my last stop.

 

[Raspy]

Anyone here do a custom home build and NOT hire a GC to oversee the project? I've heard horror stories from both sides; those that hire a GC and those that don't hire a GC.

I'm open to hear the pros and cons of each based on real-life experiences...

The argument about wether a GC is good or bad will never get answered definitively. There will always be endless examples of good and bad.

But Pettrix didn't give enough information.

So, Pettrix, Why do you ask? Are you deciding between overseeing it yourself or hiring GC? Are you ready with time, money and experience to oversee it, if necessary? Are you deciding between your brother-in-law or neighbor or the mailman's uncle and a GC. Do you already hate all contractors? Have you built anything and dealt with the building department before? Can you write well and communicate well with subcontractors and building officials? What trades do you know? Etc.

If you are not ready to deal with these issues, you'd better get someone you trust to do it for you and pay them to do it. Either manage it yourself from a knowledge and experience base, or hire a professional. Do not let your neighbor or your best friend just help you out by "managing" it for you.

Contracting is personal. If you cannot sit down and communicate well with your potential contractor, if you don't like his attitude or something else, send him on his way with a "thank you for coming". Ask him to tell you what will fall into the "extra" category and make a written list. What windows does he recommend and why, what siding is best and why, what grade interior wall finish is he planning to use, what brand and grade paint, can you hire a sub for the heat and expect him to work with that sub outside the general contract, etc. Tell him you expect him to devote time to this project and be on site most of the time. Projects do not go well without an on-site manager. How do his responses sound? Take responsibility for the project yourself and don't just be looking for someone to blame when it gets tough. In the end, it will be frustrating and more expensive than you think.

There is no one answer to fit your question. Someone else telling you they hate contractors may say more about them than the contractors. You must take responsibility for the final decisions and work with the people you hire. If they are not up to your standards you have to express that and either help them do better or find someone else. Balance that with staying out of the way and allowing the project to move forward. You might be the biggest hindrance. Finally, pay well and pay when asked. Money greases the wheels of the project and happy workers do better work. They'll want to be there and want to please you.

Finally, if you do hire a general, or if you hire a few subs, let them do their work. Nothing is more bothersome than someone breathing down your neck while you are trying to do good work. Subs are not there to teach you or explain every decision they make, they are professionals. You may not realize how many outside expenses they have to manage in their business. They have given you a price that is competitive and they need to make progress to make money. They need to make money to be in business and pay for insurance, licenses, fuel, payments and employees. And they need to remain in business to warrantee their work. It costs a lot to be a legitimate businessman. If you have hired them it means you trust them. If you see some serious shortcut or get by, tell them you are concerned and remind them that this is your home and you want it to last your lifetime. Tell them that if they are unfamiliar with what they are doing you may have to re-consider the arrangement. And tell them to do it over. But be sure you know what you are talking about. If you let problems slide you will live with them for the rest of the time you live there and you will always remember it. Fixing it might be more expensive, but you will sleep better.

By all means, do it yourself if you can. What could be more satisfying than building your own house? Sometimes it's hard to realize that everything is easy once you know how to do it. When someone is really good at something it looks easy. Are you good enough at all the trades to make them look easy? If not, can you find a manager that is?

I am most of the way through managing the construction of my new home. I'm also a radiant heating contractor that works with many GCs. I don't claim to know roofing or concrete or underground waste plumbing. But I do know people well enough to weed out the losers and I know when someone has taken advantage of me. This is my retirement home and the one time I'm going to build for myself. I designed the whole thing and have been working with everyone from the engineer and building department on through all the subcontractors that knew how to do what I didn't. I designed the house, all of the interior dimensions, and located it on the property, I designed and installed the solar system and the radiant heat system, did all the rebar, wiring and domestic plumbing. Picked the siding and windows, decided on the framing sizes and the insulation, etc, etc, etc. It goes on endlessly.

Here's the bottom line: If you have more time than money, and know something about the trades, do it yourself. If you have more money than time, and know little about building, hire someone to manage it for you. If you hire some workers to help you, then you must consider what might happen if they get hurt on the job and look to you for help. Around here, you cannot hire someone for a value of more than $200. without Workman's Comp. But, of course, it happens all the time. Licensed contractors that bring their employees to the job have already dealt with that and should be able to prove it to you. One way to weed out the people that may be just getting by is to specify that they must provide you with proof of insurance and a contractors license number before they start work. You can tell them you want to be named an additional insured on their policy. This is a way to protect yourself and determine if a contractor has been knowledgeable enough to become established and get a clue. By this time, if they haven't bolted for the door, they are qualified to go to my earlier paragraph about "Contracting is personal" and start there. Or you can start there and finish it off wit these requirements.

Are you beginning to see that this might be a more complicated question than just yes or no?

 

[J F]

The argument about wether a GC is good or bad will never get answered definitively. There will always be endless examples of good and bad.

This, and different wordings of this, are pretty much the only "correct" answer when it comes to "should I GC my own home?". A lot depends on...everything else.

If you get through it with your wits intact, it may be the best thing you ever did. Or maybe you saved a bunch of money (or lost a bunch). Read as much as you can about those who have done it...and keep in mind that the bad scenarios will probably be much under-represented, who wants to post about a huge mistake/failure on their own part?

If you've got the heart (and $ to cover the pretty much "guaranteed" surprises...whatever they are), learn what you can, and make a wild-azzz guess whether to do it. The only thing guaranteed, is that there will be surprises.

 

[paulharvey]

I think another issue in weather to hire a GC is what house your building. It can be hard to find someone who builds a basic no frills home because there really isn't much money in it. If you want a functional rectangle with a simple 4:12 gable, 3 bed rooms, 2 bathrooms, basic carpet, basic ($1.50/sq ft) tile, it will be hard to find a GC or an architect to do it.

Many contractors are not going to do well with out quality plans, (if there IS such a thing), and if you do GC it, try your best to not make changes that aren't needed/impulse decisions.

Are you buying plans, working with an architect, going to have GC draw them, or drawing yourself?

 

[EddieWalker]

Anyone here do a custom home build and NOT hire a GC to oversee the project? I've heard horror stories from both sides; those that hire a GC and those that don't hire a GC.

I'm open to hear the pros and cons of each based on real-life experiences...

You've received some good advice and some very jaded opinions which I think show pretty clearly point out that pros and cons of hiring anybody to do something for you. What I've found is that it almost always comes down to communication between both parties and a willingness to listen to each other. In some of the views expressed here, I get the feeling that it's their way or the highway and the GC or whoever they hire is already considered a crook that is going to take advantage of them if allowed. While I'm sure this is true in some cases, I also feel that most contractors or people you hire just want to get the job done as good as they know how and to make a living doing it. The trick is finding people who understand what you want and can translate that into the results you are wanting.

Things to consider is that most contractors do the same thing over and over again, and if that's what you want them to do, it's easy, but if you want them to do something new or different, then odds are that you will be disappointed.

I like to hire guys who have a solid reputation. I've found that family and personal friends are very unreliable for recommendations. Especially family. They will tell you amazing stories about how good that family member is just because they know he is out of work and desperate for a job. What they never tell you is why he is out of work or all the issues he has had in the past. I think that most of the jobs I've had where the guy quit before finishing, or they fired because his work wasn't what they wanted, where from recommendations from family. Angie's List is a good source to start your search if you don't already know anybody in the trades. Most of the busier subcontractors know who the other good contractors are. Once you start talking to them, several names will come up over and over again. Those are the ones you want to talk to.

What you pay is for what you get, and if it's worth it is really dependent on what you know and what you can do yourself. Most people will only build or have a house built once in their lives. They advice and knowledge is very limited to what they have done. Since you have never done this before, it's up to you to decide if you can learn on your own what you need to have done and in what steps need to be taken in what order they need to happen. Nothing worse then knowing you want something done, then realizing you didn't do what you needed to have done, then having to undo what you've done to get there. A GC with experience will know that it needs to be done in a certain order, will have the materials there and the people there to do it.

A good contractor is busy. He is not cheap and he wont be able to start right away. You will have to wait for him and start when he's ready. The second biggest mistake I come across with clients is that they didn't want to wait. They hire somebody that they don't know, but maybe found on a classified ad, or a family friend, and is ready to start right away. They make a few mistakes, or have a poor work ethic and don't show up, and the job doesn't' get done, or it's not done like you want it done. Now you've spend money on something you don't like and you have to either live with it or hire somebody else to fix it. I get a lot of jobs like this. It's very common. In every case, they realize pretty quickly that they made a mistake, but they hope it will get better. It never does.

If you hire somebody and you start to have red flags about the job he is doing. STOP!!!! Either fire him or have a very long, very detailed conversation about what your concerns are. Odds are that you need to find somebody else. Sometimes it's fixable. Letting it go will just lead to more issues and more problems that will just cost you more money down the road.

Never hire based on price alone. What he charges is what he can get. If he charges more then everyone else, but he is extremely busy, that should be a clue that he is worth more then the competition. Somebody that works for a lot less means he hasn't built up his name to demand more for his time, or he has burned so many bridges that nobody wants him to work for them and he has to rely on a low wage to get anybody to hire him.

If you do it yourself, you have to realize that you will be hiring new people over and over again to do a job. You will have to go through the process of finding the, evaluating them and supervising them every single time. I promise you that you will get it wrong at least once, and probably a few times. The GC will already know who to call and know who needs extra attention and who can do the job without constant checking up on them. Who will clean up after they are done and who will destroy the place. The stress factor and extra expenses will be huge doing it yourself compared to hiring it done.

In the end, it's hard to say how much you will save unless you do a lot of the actual work yourself. If you know exactly what you want done and how you want it done, then being your own GC is a good choice. If you are just doing it to save money, it's highly unlikely that you will save anything by the time it's all said and done.

Eddie

 

[J F]

The real difficult part of hiring a GC/homebuilder etc, imo, is that finding someone who does quality work is the easy part...it really is, even if that's difficult to find.

The really hard part, is finding the above outfit with the right "office" skills, meaning estimating/job costing/time management/client communication skills...unless you can ascertain these things ahead of time, you're "guessing" that this very important part of the process is just going to go well.

But most people don't even consider any of these when hiring...unless its the "client communication" part, just due to gettin' pizzed that no one will get back to them in a timely manner, if at all, when trying to get "estimates". :laughing:

I would guess a lot/most of the people in the building trades, that get into owning their own business, are pretty good at their "trade", or even flat out incredible at it...it's the "business end of things" where so much "bad" happens.

It's easy to understand why, the majority of people that go into the building business weren't business majors, they're guys (and some gals) who are good at the "hands on work"...and go from there.

 

[J F]

As counter-intuitive as it may sound to some, you absolutely want a gc/builder who is making a healthy profit from his jobs. (if the gc knew how/why, that would help too. :laughing

 

[deezler]

Wow, lots of good advice and replies here already.

As I prepare to start my own home build, this thread is very helpful. We've decided to hire a GC (not just a GC, but actually a design/build FIRM) to do our project, because I simply don't have the time to do it myself while holding a full time job and raising a family. Its' definitely a more expensive way to go, and money is tight, but we can scrape it out.

One thing I haven't seen pointed out here yet is to remember that the type of opinions you'll typically get here on tractorbynet are slanted in a "do-it-yourself" fashion. As you can see from the first few replies, lots of people on this site are actually contractors! Or in the trades. If you are not - I would definitely recommend not trying this yourself. It's already been said, but a professional GC already knows who is good at all the trades - they will get things done right the first time (hopefully).

Another point is this: have you visited many homes where the homeowner built it themselves? They are very often not finished to 100%. Rooms left un-drywalled, flooring not installed yet, painting to be done.... for years after the home is being lived in. It's easy to understand why this happens, as after months (if not years) of toiling just to get the house functional, and probably being over budget, it's nice to take a break before everything is 100% done. A contractor has different motivation - to get done and get paid.

 

[J F]

A contractor has different motivation - to get done and get paid.

Absolutely correct...with a well-written contract.