Future of HVAC and industry supply issues.

[milkman636]

Wow, that’s a tough break.

Did you end up finding a different contractor/supplier than the one you normally used?

Did you see the shipping damages? Sometimes stuff gets dropped off the trailer or run through by a fork truck beyond repair, and sometimes stuff can get rejected for issues that may be completely field repairable. Way back in my past I worked for York factory service and did field repairs on a brand new centrifugal chiller that was dropped a couple feet sideways by the crane at a hospital. It ended up good as new and the work was fully backed by York with extended warranty coverage. That was an intense situation that I’ll never forget.

 

[ultrarunner]

Wow, that’s a tough break.

Did you end up finding a different contractor/supplier than the one you normally used?

Did you see the shipping damages? Sometimes stuff gets dropped off the trailer or run through by a fork truck beyond repair, and sometimes stuff can get rejected for issues that may be completely field repairable.

Yes… referral from our sister facility about 100 miles away in Sacramento where everything has A/C

The unit was damaged loading and never left the yard in middle America.

It’s 410 so if it lasts through our new 15 year commitment here we will be good.

Also having a small Carrier gas pack package unit replaced in the middle of the building since crane will be onsite.

The company was very detailed and 2 men did the site survey and found my crane recommendation helpful… same that installed in 1995.

 

[ultrarunner]

A long time coming and being that the original unit damaged in transit the timeline was extended...

Ordered a 100 ton crane for the pick and so far all is well...

The large crane due to the significant reach…

 

[milkman636]

That has to be a relief. Are you all back to normal operations now?

Did anyone ever total up all the rental and fuel costs for the temporary setup?

 

[ultrarunner]

That has to be a relief. Are you all back to normal operations now?

Did anyone ever total up all the rental and fuel costs for the temporary setup?

I have not but rental and fuel about $800 per surgery day... plus set up and return costs...

Significant outlay but the alternative would have been closing the operating rooms.

Corp comitted to another 15 years here and this is what it took to get things moving... before I would have said 50/50 closing this year due to neighborhood and upgrades.

 

[milkman636]

That new unit cost probably seems like a bargain now after paying $800 a day for the substitute.

What about you? I seem to recall earlier in this thread that you were considering hanging it all up if they decided to move. Now that they’ve committed to 15 years and dropped in some new equipment, are you going to hang in to see how long this stuff lasts?

 

[ultrarunner]

Excellent question… and one I'm pondering

I was ok with retiring had we closed…

I opened it so fitting I close it.

With 15 more years now the push is to make up for lost time as spending had been limited to minimum to get us by since there was no future beyond 2024.

Saturday and Sunday 25 hours on the clock and Monday and Tuesday 14 hours each…

I have 26 months on my mortgage and it would be nice retiring without a mortgage… admin took me aside and said you can always quit but appreciate you hanging in here.

Have a glitch with the new Carrier unit as it shuts down every night for 2 nights in a row.

Because of the environment the original unit had Hot Gas By Pass… this one does not nor does it have vfd compressors…

Tomorrow Hot By Pass will be installed…

I am the first to admit I have much to learn but I know my building as I was part of the original design team in 93-94 and Hot Gas By Pass was essential being that the cooling is required down to 53F outside ambient air temperature…

The lead from the company installing is very receptive and knowledgeable as he is the one that has to make it all work…

Realizing it’s in process I still gave him my punch list and we went over all items and one he even took a picture because he missed it… 5 guys on the weekend didn’t have the luxury of open supply house if something needed and it had to be operational.

No bushing protecting 480v 3ph conductors passing through rough jagged sheet metal.

A 480v short on a 125 amp circuit is not a problem I want to have!

 

[milkman636]

That’s a good catch. The extra fuse in the bottom won’t help if the feeders blow.

Does the new unit have Carlyle recips in it like the old one did?

 

[ultrarunner]

No... those are gone forever.

One kept working like a champ and the other shut off due to the coil leaks.

 

[Sigarms]

Ultrarunner, I thought of you this past week...

Was on a conference call this past week, we were discussing A2L refrigerants, and I was mentioning that R32 may not hold up to R454B by 2029. I was informed that R454B may not hold up, too early to tell yet, but it is possible they would be looking at replacing both R454B and R32.

It's 2024 right now.

I don't remember the exact date, but it was around 2004 R22 was replaced with R410A. Around 2007 I had heard that R410A could be replaced, and I did not believe it. Found out a couple of months later talking with a refrigerant manufacturer it was true, but it was a while down the road (and that time is now only 5 months away).

Although I can't believe we would be so stupid to change a major refrigerant for HVAC equipment in only 5 years, given the "fast change" from R410A to R454B / R32, I can help but shrug my shoulders and think it's possible.

You guys don't see this, but there is already a national shortage of wall mount air handlers for new construction business. Last calls have been placed nationally for for R454B equipment as it can be sold through 2025 (commercial 3 phase has a longer run through sell date) and it's becoming the cluster fiasco everyone knew it would become with the change of refrigerant in equipment. To some extent, larger new construction jobs were also hampered by the SEER2 changes in 2023.

I'm already thinking of just buying some R410A equipment to replace the last 2 systems at my own home just so I have the equipment, as there will be a substantial price increase on A2L equipment due to the mandatory safety features that need to be built in (along with the added cost increase that comes in the industry).