Garage door opener installation

[Oldpath05]

Yeah, it's not really working the cables, it's manipulating the spring tension, which either causes the spring to reel in the cables or let them out.

Normally there is one light to indicate the sending sensor has power, and then the other light will come on when the receiving sensor is seeing the beam. So both lights on is a good sign. I'd suggest checking the wiring for both of them to make sure it's not nicked or something. On one opener install ages ago, I accidentally pierced one of the sensor wires with a staple, and while the sensors both lit up, it sent a false signal to the opener and it would reverse the door after it started going down. That was an embarrassing mistake, as I am normally careful when stapling wires....

I was wondering about those stabled wires myself today, I'll check them out this weekend. I don't like small wires like that being stabled with non-insulated staples, that's what those tail light guarantee people used when they put the door in last year. The last opener I put in 20 years ago, back when I was 3 clicks smarter, I used small insulated staples.

 

[s219]

I think the springs are almost unwound when the door is up, so when the door starts to go down, it starts winding the spring, and when the door is completely down, the springs are all wound up like I am when the opener doesn't work. in other words, when I unhook the opener, I have to pull on the rope to bring the door down, gravity isn't helping. The last opener I had if I remember right, it was mounted on the ceiling, it had a rail with a long chain riding on it, the chain pulled the door up and pulled the door down. I cant seam to understand this 8500 LM I have now make the door go down, must be above my pay grade.

Actually, that other opener was just offsetting the springs too. Same as when you move it by hand.

If you disconnect the springs, you won't be able to move the door up by hand, and no opener will be able to budge it either. Doors are insanely heavy. There is a lot of wound up force in the springs that almost nearly cancel out the weight of the door, so it just takes a little push up or down to make it move. All you're really doing is adding or taking away some of the wound up force so that the door moves in one direction or another. Same with openers, whether they are on a track or they wind the jack shaft.

 

[s219]

I was wondering about those stabled wires myself today, I'll check them out this weekend. I don't like small wires like that being stabled with non-insulated staples, that's what those tail light guarantee people used when they put the door in last year. The last opener I put in 20 years ago, back when I was 3 clicks smarter, I used small insulated staples.

I use regular staples with a "nose" that goes on the staple gun to prevent it from shooting all the way, which leaves a little gap and doesn't crush the wire. In the case where I pierced a wire, it was bad aim -- I shot one point of the staple through the wire. Hard to imagine how that happened since I normally aim carefully.

 

[Oldpath05]

Actually, that other opener was just offsetting the springs too. Same as when you move it by hand.

If you disconnect the springs, you won't be able to move the door up by hand, and no opener will be able to budge it either. Doors are insanely heavy. There is a lot of wound up force in the springs that almost nearly cancel out the weight of the door, so it just takes a little push up or down to make it move. All you're really doing is adding or taking away some of the wound up force so that the door moves in one direction or another. Same with openers, whether they are on a track or they wind the jack shaft.

I'm still kunfused, you know your talking to a weldah when after 3 times I still don't understand how the cable is pushing the door down, winding the springs up at the same time. Maybe the next time you gas your F150 up on a Sat. you can stop in with your chalk board and draw some diagrams and schematics with some Z x Y=hopeless. It's probably one of those many things that I still cant get, I blame it on tomuch welding smoke.
PS, gas is $1.82 at one location, and coffee's ready at 9.

 

[Oldpath05]

I use regular staples with a "nose" that goes on the staple gun to prevent it from shooting all the way, which leaves a little gap and doesn't crush the wire. In the case where I pierced a wire, it was bad aim -- I shot one point of the staple through the wire. Hard to imagine how that happened since I normally aim carefully.

I have a regular stapler that shoots 1/4-1/2 inch, but no nose to put on it to keep the staple from going all the way in, give a brand of the one you have so I can look it up, I want to make sure I get the one that doesn't have bent sites so I can aim it straight, just in case I have to re-staple all the wire's on my opener. I heard of some people actually hitting the wire with a staple

 

[ultrarunner]

Still $2.29 here

 

[Xfaxman]

I'm still kunfused, you know your talking to a weldah when after 3 times I still don't understand how the cable is pushing the door down, winding the springs up at the same time. Maybe the next time you gas your F150 up on a Sat. you can stop in with your chalk board and draw some diagrams and schematics with some Z x Y=hopeless. It's probably one of those many things that I still cant get, I blame it on tomuch welding smoke.
PS, gas is $1.82 at one location, and coffee's ready at 9.

The cables are attached to the bottom of the door and the cable drums on the shaft at the top.

The springs are tensioned with the door down, to balance the weight of the door. To much tension and the door will come up. Unwind some tension and the door will go back down.

Think of the cable drums like a winch, the opener turns the shaft and drums, winding the cable on the drums and lifting the door. With the door all the way up, reverse the opener, turning the shaft and drums the other way, unwinding the cable, the weight of the door will keep tension on the cables as the door comes down.

For this type opener the track has to be installed with the overhead section sloping down so the door will start moving down when the opener turns the shaft to close it. Once the door starts moving there is plenty of weight in the vertical part of the track to keep it moving .

If that is not clear, think about this scenario, new door, no opener, springs adjusted correctly. Push the door up, it stays up because of the spring tension. Have two guys cut the cables at the same time. The springs unwind violently and the door comes crashing down at the speed of gravity!

 

[Oldpath05]

The cables are attached to the bottom of the door and the cable drums on the shaft at the top.

The springs are tensioned with the door down, to balance the weight of the door. To much tension and the door will come up. Unwind some tension and the door will go back down.

Think of the cable drums like a winch, the opener turns the shaft and drums, winding the cable on the drums and lifting the door. With the door all the way up, reverse the opener, turning the shaft and drums the other way, unwinding the cable, the weight of the door will keep tension on the cables as the door comes down.

For this type opener the track has to be installed with the overhead section sloping down so the door will start moving down when the opener turns the shaft to close it. Once the door starts moving there is plenty of weight in the vertical part of the track to keep it moving .

If that is not clear, think about this scenario, new door, no opener, springs adjusted correctly. Push the door up, it stays up because of the spring tension. Have two guys cut the cables at the same time. The springs unwind violently and the door comes crashing down at the speed of gravity!

Excellent explanation and the high lighted blue part on my post was AWSOME, I need to learn to do that, but you lost me at (plenty of weight in the vertical track part) I did the math on that and Z x Y=there's no weight on the door when it's all up, or coming down. My 8500 LM is unhooked right now and I have to pull on the rope to bring it down, if the door is halfway up it stays there. I get W x Y=how the cable pulls the door up on the cable drum, no problem there.

But in in my world this how it should work, Plan A, when the door is down and the springs are wound up, and the cable that's hooked at the bottom is on a pulley and comes back up around the cable drum so when I push the button, it pulls up and or pulls down.
Plan B, I push the button, the door goes up and no matter where it stops there's 10lbs. of down pressure on the door and cables, and as it reaches the top all the way up, it counter wines the spring a little so when I hit the down button the spring helps push the door down the rail so it starts getting 10lbs. of down force, good thing there's a lot of letters in the alphabet. Patent pending.

 

[aczlan]

Excellent explanation and the high lighted blue part on my post was AWSOME, I need to learn to do that, but you lost me at (plenty of weight in the vertical track part) I did the math on that and Z x Y=there's no weight on the door when it's all up, or coming down. My 8500 LM is unhooked right now and I have to pull on the rope to bring it down, if the door is halfway up it stays there. I get W x Y=how the cable pulls the door up on the cable drum, no problem there.

The reason it stays is that the spring is pulling on the cables that are holding it up. The opener twists the rod that the spring runs on, counteracts the force of the spring and allows gravity to lower the door.

Aaron Z

 

[Xfaxman]

Excellent explanation and the high lighted blue part on my post was AWSOME, I need to learn to do that, but you lost me at (plenty of weight in the vertical track part) I did the math on that and Z x Y=there's no weight on the door when it's all up, or coming down. My 8500 LM is unhooked right now and I have to pull on the rope to bring it down, if the door is halfway up it stays there. I get W x Y=how the cable pulls the door up on the cable drum, no problem there.

But in in my world this how it should work, Plan A, when the door is down and the springs are wound up, and the cable that's hooked at the bottom is on a pulley and comes back up around the cable drum so when I push the button, it pulls up and or pulls down. Pulls up only.
Plan B, I push the button, the door goes up and no matter where it stops there's 10lbs. of down pressure on the door and cables, There is no "down pressure" on the door, only gravity. The pressure on the cables is the weight of the door. and as it reaches the top all the way up, it counter wines the spring a little so when I hit the down button the spring helps push the door down the rail Wrong, the spring is fastened to the shaft and only counter balances the weight of the door. so it starts getting 10lbs. of down force, It starts going down because the opener is turning the shaft, the cable drums are spooling the cable out, the weight of the door starts it moving down, keeping the cable tight. good thing there's a lot of letters in the alphabet. Patent pending.

See my comments in blue above in your quote.

Plan C, see if this helps you understand how it works. With the door down unwind and remove the springs. Remove the opener and replace it with winch motor and gearbox strong enough to lift the door.

Start the motor turning to raise the door, stop when fully open.

Reverse the motor switch and turn it on, the door will come down, no springs involved. :thumbsup: