Garden tractor advice

Bob_Skurka · Apr 20, 2004

Cecil . . . An Oliver 77 is much different than a Ford 8N. And if you try to mow that 3 acre lawn and use wheel brakes to turn the tractor you will likely tear the heck out of the lawn and if there is any soft spot (which reconmarine says there is) then you will leave some nice deep ruts too.

Harder to use? Yup. I think any side by side comparision of any piece of antique iron versus any modern CUT, Sub-CUT or GT will prove that point handily. I stand by that. And while an Oliver 99 will pull a 5 bottom plow, the guy who is asking for advice wants to mow his lawn, pull a cart and grade his driveway!!!

As for safety, NO ROPS on an 8N. NO live PTO. Nuff said. Oh, but I'll add a bit more anyway, the guy is a tractor rookie, tossing him on old iron is going to mean his learning curve to safely operate it will be significantly longer than tossing him on a modern garden tractor that a 14 year old can master using in about 10 minutes!

stuart · Apr 20, 2004

I agree that JD is a quality product. MTD makes 5 or 6 different brands now. I just purchased a JD L120. Cost $2200 but has almost everything I was looking for in a Garden tractor. I used an MTD for 13 years andmit still runs but the new ones are much more comfortable and have Hydrostatic transmisions. I expect my new one to last 10 to 15 years. Best Advice: get a consumers reports and look at the last 2 years of tractor/mower reports. The magazine will give you a very good idea of the pros and cons of many different models.
Good luck.

Ozarker · Apr 20, 2004

Not sure about the "best" argument but here's what I use to cut my 3 acres. I have a Sears 22HP lawn tractor with a 60" deck. Then I got a Swisher 60" trail mower. I pull the Swisher offset and make a 10' path every pass. Turned a 5 hour job into a 3 hour job.

Charlie_in_TX · Apr 20, 2004

First a coment about safety. The modern tractors are safer. They should have a lower number of injuries per hour of work (I don't know, I have never seen the stats). Many people have used the older tractors without injury. They are somewhat like a loaded gun. Take a few simple precations and they are both safe. Make one wrong move and someone can die.

I do agree with you on most of your points Bob. I was a little hesitant to recomend a 8N for the hydralics/pto issues mostly. It will do the work he needs doing. Plus anything he buys (implements) for the 8N will work on his new tractor when it comes time to replace it. I was trying to lead him to at least getting a NAA. It fixes the major problems with the Nseries. I didn't do it in my original post but I highly recomend a modern hydrostatic tractor. More on this later.

In case the original poster dosn't know, the 8N doesn't have live hydralics/PTO. The PTO must be spinning for the hydralics to work. Further, If the tractor is in gear the tractor must be moving for the PTO to work. So if you run your brushhog over something that stalls the motor, you can't just lift the hog, you can't always get the hog spinning again. So your choises are to get the tractor out of gear and get the PTO spinning or turn the PTO off and move the tractor.

If you get a modern tractor with hydrostatic and live hydralics all the above mentioned problems are solved. You are (or can quickly get to) the right speed. You can always raise your implement. I have been mowing 4-5acres with an 8N and a 6ft RFM and a 22hp MTD with a 54in cut for the last 4 years. It was taking me 4 hours or so to get it done. I now have a Mahindra 2615 w/ 6ft MMM and a JD 318 with a 48in cut. It has not taken me more than 2 hours to mow yet.

ljh2 · Apr 20, 2004

Charlie,
I agree that a guy can learn to use an old tractor safely. I also agree that by knowing how to handle a few quirks the old iron can be made to do most of the jobs at hand reasonably well.

Where I will agree with Bob though is that to a newby, who doesn't have the benefit of years of experience, a modern compact is probably a LOT safer.

I grew up with old tractors (John Deere 'B', Allis Chalmers WD, Allis Chalmers WC, Allis Chalmers RC) and had the benefit of learning from my dad and my grandfathers and the neighbor across the road -- oh yeah and the neighbors up the road and probably a few others. I had a lot of training before I was ever allowed to operate a tractor.

Fact is, these machines have inherent safety issues that you need to be careful about -- but knowing what those things are took a generation of experience to gain. For folks that grew up around these machines, that experience was passed from generation to generation. It takes a lot of years. I'm guessing our friend has work that needs to get done now, since his grass is already growing. Not that the newer machines don't have a learning curve, just that some obvious safety features like ROPS make learning a little safer. Still not entirely safe, but safer.

Now would it be possible for reconmarine to get one of these old machines and use it to do his chores? Sure. Could he do it safely? Maybe. Could he do it as safely as a more modern machine with a few safety features and a few less quirks? Certainly! Should a new operator with no tractor experience get a classic old tractor to do his chores? I wouldn't recommend it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the old tractors. They will do most of the things recon has listed.

For someone new to tractors on a budget, I'd probably recommend a used compact tractor less than 10 years old. An import like your Mahindra or a Yanmar might be a good choice.

Aside from all of that, I will agree with the thought that the MOST IMPORTANT safety feature is the GOOD JUDGEMENT of the OPERATOR. Of course that good judgement comes from knowledge, experience, and common sense. TBN can help some with the knowledge. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Experience and common sense, well you're on your own there. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Cecil · Apr 20, 2004

(
I can tell you are a fan of older Iron but technology is technology, and its usually an improvement over old..
)

Belive it or not, I'm not. I just spent a lot of hours on some of those old beasts growing up.
(
Why challenge Bob on this? it comparing two different things all together and each have their own place and time... )
Because Bob made statements that needed to be corrected.

(
The orignal poster is asking for advice on new technology, and most people arent interested in tinkering all the time with old. Unless they are comfortable with doing so....
I see no basis for even comparing the old verses' new in this thread...

Duc )
Well no, he didn't specify age, he said he was surprised at the price of the new stuff and wanted options. Of course, I may have misinterpreted his post.

Bob_Skurka · Apr 20, 2004

Cecil, I stand by everything I wrote and still do.

Further, I think that the post got off track of the topic that was asked. I'd like to stop the bickering because we each have our own opinions that will not change, but I would like to remind everyone of the question asked and I hope that the following statement, which is the first line of the first post will take this thread back on track. This guy is looking for garden tractors and people are recommending antique farm tractors; I think this is a bit out of the realm of reason . . .

 Excuse the intrusion but I had been looking for a compact tractor but after seeing the costs, I had to scale down my goals. I am an admitted newbie to the whole lawn tractor world

Cecil · Apr 20, 2004

( Cecil . . . An Oliver 77 is much different than a Ford 8N. And if you try to mow that 3 acre lawn and use wheel brakes to turn the tractor you will likely tear the heck out of the lawn and if there is any soft spot (which reconmarine says there is) then you will leave some nice deep ruts too. )
I never suggested he mow with a '77, I simply responded to your statement that an old farm tractor required 1/2 acre to make a turn. I actually recommeded a garden tractor for his 3 acres of lawn.

(
Harder to use? Yup. I think any side by side comparision of any piece of antique iron versus any modern CUT, Sub-CUT or GT will prove that point handily. I stand by that. And while an Oliver 99 will pull a 5 bottom plow, the guy who is asking for advice wants to mow his lawn, pull a cart and grade his driveway!!! )
I was using Oliver examples because you said you were an Oliver guy, my point was that power steering is not a given as being easier to use. My brother once owned a '79 F-250, the touchiest power steering I ever drove, I would have preferred manual. That's an example, I do realize we're not talking pickup trucks here.

( As for safety, NO ROPS on an 8N. NO live PTO. Nuff said. Oh, but I'll add a bit more anyway, the guy is a tractor rookie, tossing him on old iron is going to mean his learning curve to safely operate it will be significantly longer than tossing him on a modern garden tractor that a 14 year old can master using in about 10 minutes!
)

First, ROPS does not equal safety. The single most important safety device is the operator. Second, I never suggested tossing him on old iron, I recommended he get a garden tractor to handle the lawn, which would open up the entire used market of CUTs. Although I didn't say it, I was thinking of something aling the lines of a 10 year old Kubota with something less that 1500 hours, it seems like that would do him nicely.

In reviewing my original post in this thread, I can see why it was taken a different way, but a 10 year old CUT is really what I had in mind.

cecil

Cecil · Apr 20, 2004

( Cecil, I stand by everything I wrote and still do. )

Glad to hear it, I'd hate to debate with someone who didn't stand by his (or her) statements.

(
Further, I think that the post got off track of the topic that was asked. I'd like to stop the bickering because we each have our own opinions that will not change, but I would like to remind everyone of the question asked and I hope that the following statement, which is the first line of the first post will take this thread back on track. This guy is looking for garden tractors and people are recommending antique farm tractors; I think this is a bit out of the realm of reason . . .
)
While I agree we got off topic, no one actually recommended an antique tractor, they (we) were simply offered up as options. But let's get back on topic, and Bob & Cecil can agree to disagree.

(
 Excuse the intrusion but I had been looking for a compact tractor but after seeing the costs, I had to scale down my goals. I am an admitted newbie to the whole lawn tractor world 
)
My advice would be to look for a good garden tractor to handle the lawn chores, then look for a Compact (aka CUT) for the real tractor work. Something like a 10 +/- year old Kubota with less than 2000 hours on the engine would be where I would start. Also drive as many of them as you can -- gear vs hydro, position of hydraulic controls, comfort of the seat all make a big difference. So drive as many as you can to determine what you like (and are willing to pay for).

Cecil

Schultz · Apr 21, 2004

If your looking for budget garden tractors then the used market may be for you. I mow about 3 acres with my 18hp GT that has a 60" mower. I can recommend the Ingersoll tractors but the 60" mower isn't worth recommending, so overall don't get the Ingersol/case. However, I think you could use a 60" mower.

With that said I can recommend any of the 400 series JD's, I've spend a lot time on one (430 diesel) in my youth and it was bullet proof tractor and a great mower. The 400's are on ebay all the time. Don't think you need 25hp or more, my 18hp will power through any lawn I point it at. It will bogg down when I mow some of the swap grass that's about waist high around the dock.

Another tractor that I would recommend is the Cub Cadet 3000 series or better yet 5000 series. I've only looked these over at a dealer and they seem very well built for less $ than a new than a JD.

The last tractor I would recommend is the Powertrac. It's unlike all the others, its 4wd and reasonably priced and would certainly do all of your functions. Check out the Powertrac discussions here on TBN and powertrac's website, you'll be amazed. These are priced about the same as a mildly used JD400 GT