Gas Company wants to install pipeline under my land; Please help!

[whistlepig]

Things like that are always negotiable.

And what is your experience at negotiating?

 

[two_bit_score]

And what is your experience at negotiating?

You could say it is "extensive". Why do you ask?

 

[jinman]

ITHINKICAN, here is a PDF file from the Texas Attorney General's Office that lists your rights in Texas and what you can expect. It summarizes many of the things discussed in this thread and gives you reliable information based on legal fact rather than any presupposition from other localities.

As an anecdote, my father used to tell anyone who wanted an easement that they could have it right after they condemned it and took it. It didn't foster the best relationship with the city where he lived, but it did make the property easy to sell after he passed away. He used to tell me that if he gave a general easement, they could put anything across his land, but if they declared eminent domain and condemned and took his land, they could only put in the single item they needed. Future additions had to be renegotiated. I think this is true, but that is just an anecdote from me.

Texas Landowner's Bill of Rights

 

[kude]

As a family farm, I sure understand the sentiment of not messing with the land. I went from resistance to accept the future ineviatbility of development. Easements can work against you if you don't have a clue of their impact. I had a smart land planner work with the village to lay everything out so I didn't have a hodgepodge. A village is going get an easement that allows for roads, sewer, water, storm, gas, electric, telephone and future use. I had wanted money for the easements, but the village said they would put in some roads, not cost free, but they are built and I didn't have to borrow to pay for them. Don't let them talk you into something you think is wrong, because sometimes they have other interests at heart, not yours. This is where your land planner helps you preserve your interests. Sometimes a neighboriung developer asked for a constructiuon easement, You can ask for a favor perhaps. They have left stubs for sewer and water hookup in return, and one made a old junk pile in the construction easement disappear.

Having sewer, water and roads certainly helps future value.

Cooperate carefully. I have known neighbors spending thousands on lawyers who fight the system, and that gets expensive fast. $500 PER HOUR IS STEEP. Use lawyers to check over the deals, and get one who knows land issues.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Thank you to EVERYONE for your assistance!

Do you already have a pipeline in place? Or is there one across the road?

Neither. Currently we enjoy all 31 acres with zero pipeline and zero easement(s). The nearest easement is probably 1 mile away.

From what I read in the article the survey they would like to do is all a pre curser to filing for emanate domain if the courts will let them into Occidental Chemical's corridor. Thats scary stuff. I would not give permission for the survey until more detail was available.

This has got to be affecting many land owners. Start looking for others that may be forming a group to represent the landowners.

Good luck,
MarkV

I agree on both it is a precursor and it will affect many landowners. Lots of neighbors have Roads named after them. This farm land has been with their family for generations. I would like to foster a relationship and fight as a group if they'd be willing. I have one family that is all ready interested. They own 100's of acres and have a road named after them...

Unfortunately, it appears that Texas grants eminent domain powers to "Common Carriers". A company gains that status by applying to the Railroad's board and getting the T-4 certificate.

It also appears that Texas courts grant rights to enter and survey property along with a Common Carrier's eminent domain rights. If a big chemical company can't block them, then you probably can't as well.

Here are some thought on how you might proceed:

I agree on all accounts. And thank you!!

- Any permission to survey should be in writing, and be sure you are not granting them anything else. And I'd hold of on allowing them access as long as possible.

- They need permission from both my wife and I. My wife said no. The tenant said no too.

- Eminent domain allows the taking of land, but not without compensation. I'd start building your case for the loss of value in your land if an easement gets forced onto you. Your best outcome may be to extract the most compensation.

- If they proceed they will be ruining approx 10 acres - the whole left side. But I'd still want them to buy me an identical 31 acre lot in the same zip code since I will ultimately lose out on the use and enjoyment of the entire piece of land; as I had intended.

- List all the things you won't be able to do on the land, and start assigning value in the form of annual income and/or land value. Note that you will be paying taxes on this unusable land.

- Excellent idea!

- People often buy land because it appreciates in value. You can value to lost use of the land in today's dollars, but is there a way to value the loss in the future when you sell the land.

- I think so. This area is booming. They are building toll roads, highways, schools, subdivisions, shopping centers. The area is so different vs how it was 10 yrs ago. The appreciation in land value is insane.

- Can you get compensation that is both a one-time fee as well as an on-going fee, perhaps justified by your ongoing payment of the taxes.

- The salesman said they can't discuss numbers until after the Survey was completed.

- Draft up a subdivision and development plan for your property. Cut up the house lots so every driveway crosses the ROW. Now argue that the ROW squashes your subdivision plans and that compensation needs to reflect that. The chemical company will likely claim the compensation due to them is based on the lost value of their other development plans. You should do the same thing to jack up the value.

- I like that idea the most!

- You might also look into their Common Carrier status. Is it justified? Undoing that might be an angle to work, but I expect the Chemical company already looked into it.

- Yes. I'd assume Occidental all ready looked into that angle.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

They sent a Fed Ex today with a Survey and a ridiculous low ball Written Offer :thumbdown:.

Does anyone know a really expensive Attorney in Texas that is qualified with pipeline ROW?

Ok to send Instant Message too. :thumbsup:

How do I get the pdf up on to this website for people to review?

 

[dodge man]

As a land surveyor, I have worked on some power line easements. In this case, they had the right to condemn the property. This meant the power line was going to go there no matter what. There are set rates for this kind of easement. That doesn't mean they won't try and low ball you, but you can't expect to get big money, the rates are pretty much set.

They pick the best route and go with it, in some cases they can move the lines to accommodate an owner, but they can't go moving the thing all over the place, some other land owner would just object as much as you do.

If this pipeline company has the right to condemn your property, the best you can hope for is to get fair market value for you land. Like others have said, items like fixing driveways, access over the pipe line, etc can be added to the document, but my guess is this stuff is also held to certain standards by the state and the pipeline company won't do much more than required.

My experience was that people who said they were going to court didn't, they settled before hand, probably at their lawyers advice. People do have some recourse. The job I worked on the power company had to move someones house, which I'm sure cost thousands. They only moved it a few hundred feet.

Good luck.

 

[whistlepig]

On the road easement we settled for four times the original offer.

 

[MarkV]

dodge man is a surveyor so he sure knows more than me. In this case the property has not been condemned and it is still in the courts if the company wanting the survey will even get permission to work in that pipeline corridor. If they do, the survey is only part of the paper work they need to ask for emanate domain of the property.

Personally I would not let a survey happen until someone handed me a court order. I don't see how ITHINKICAN has anything to gain by doing so. Until then I would be talking to other landowners and encouraging them to do the same.

MarkV

 

[ustmd]

They sent a Fed Ex today with a Survey and a ridiculous low ball Written Offer :thumbdown:.



How do I get the pdf up on to this website for people to review?

I just checked--you should be able to attach it in the smae way you attach a picture...TBN allows pdf files up to 1M size.

I am curious to see the offer.