Gas in the Oil issues

[PRCWI]

Hi all,

I have a Land Pride Treker utility vehicle that we've owned for 3 years now. The first year we had it I was an idiot and was running fuel in it that had up to 10% ethanol. When we purchased it the treker ran great for the first year and first winter. Right before our second winter we started having issues with it smoking (white/blue smoke) Investigation led to me discovering gas getting in the oil.

We took it in and had the engine looked at, the fuel pump was replaced as they thought that was the issue first but that didn't correct the issue, so the next was having the Carb cleaned. That resulted in the issue not being fixed and with the tuning then being completely screwed up.

Finally I just had the entire Carb replaced, and that fixed it. Ran great after that for 6+ months with no issues, started great and ran great (and no more ethanol just 93 octane with no ethanol added).

Then this spring the front wheel bearings/drive train went out on it and we had to park it while we saved up money to have it fixed. So it sat for 3 months this summer (outside at the service center) while we were saving up the $1500 to have it fixed. When it was repaired and we got it back it seemed fine but then after about 3 weeks the gas in the oil issue reared its ugly head again.

I cleaned the carb myself this time but that didn't help. So I am at a complete loss. When it comes to small engines I feel like the blind leading the blind. Anyone have any ideas or pointers for what to try with this? I changed the oil so its running ok at the moment but it can't be good for it to have the oil gradually diluted.

We use the thing daily and being without it's use is a real struggle especially now when its getting wet/muddy around the farm and I can't use the skid steer as much without making a royal mess.

The engine is a 20HP Honda V-Twin, model GX620K1

If anyone has any ideas on how to troubleshoot or fix it I'm open to anything. Right now I don't even know how to adjust the Carb so any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Patrick

 

[davesl708]

It could be several things causing this. A hole in the float in the carb causing a continuous flow of fuel. The seat is not sealing when the float is up and letting fuel flow into the cylinder. A cracked compression ring on one of the pistons allowing gas to blow by during compression. A bad intake valve allowing fuel to be sucked by into the cylinder and down into the oil.

 

[PRCWI]

Well I am hoping since the issue left and then returned that it's not the compression ring. Any recommendations on how to troubleshoot to isolate the problem spot?

Also anyone have any recommendations on prefered engine/carb cleaners or gasoline additives that might help clean things up if there are issues from it sitting for a couple months?

 

[davesl708]

Seafoam is a good cleaner. If the problem is intermittent then the float sticking moves to the front of the line. Seafoam will clean the complete system.
Ethanol will phase separate in a month or two. Stabil helps with that. It will also form a gel scum that could be preventing the check valve from closing properly.

 

[PRCWI]

Ok thanks, I'm going to treat with that too, looks like good stuff from the end user vids I saw. Do you just add it to the gas or should I spray it through the carburetor too?

 

[PRCWI]

So a new twist, I've been on the road a lot and yesterday my wife tells me that she forgot and bought gas with ethanol the last time she took the containers in to fill up. So the last several times it's been filled up it's had gas with Ethanol in it. :thumbdown: She went to town to get "good" gas and I'm going to drain the tank and carb and run the seafoam through the carb as well as add it to the new gas. Then I'll change the oil and filter and we'll see what we get.

 

[Soundguy]

It has a fuel pump.. Electric or mechanical?

 

[PRCWI]

I'll have to look to see. That was the first thing replaced when we first had issues over a year ago.

I believe this is the pump, it says vacuum type.
Honda Fuel Pump GX610 GX620 GX670 GXV620 GXV670 – Everest Parts Supplies

 

[rjok]

We also have a treker 4420. Have had gas in the oil but I attributed it to the fact that i changed the spring loaded choke cable to manually control cable. Because of the way they engine runs lean the choke would be left too rich and fuel would get in the oil. The dealer warned me that fuel could get in the oil when he delivered it if we held the choke out to long. Now I make sure I check the oil for fuel smell and change it if I smell any. I bought a larger main jet to install when I get around to it. Should reduce the need for running with the choke out. Rick

 

[PRCWI]

Ahh, I hadn't heard that, we had to replace our choke cable a while ago and the spot where it goes was broken anyway so I put in a non spring loaded choke cable. We don't usually leave it out but when it's warming up sometimes we have to or it kills. I'm also not always the one driving it so the kids may drive it more. Good to know.

I had another thought too. When I first had the issue the shop I took it too use 0w oil in it rather than 10w because they said it would be better for cold usage. I'm wondering if that has any effect too.

Good to find another user with a Treker. We really liked ours until we started having this issue and ever since it's been a real pain in the but to deal with. I'm away a lot so I need it to be reliable for my wife to use daily. They are handy little things and I love the large electric dump bed on them for hauling stuff, just wish it could haul/dump a little heavier loads. Other than that its been good for us. A little tough to find parts for but otherwise good.

Let me know when you get your larger jet installed if that makes a difference as that could be helpful.

 

[PRCWI]

Well, Changed the oil, oil filter, air filter, choke cable and added seafoam to the gas. I didn't have time to do the direct spray into the carb Sunday night, I'm going to try to do that this weekend. So far the wife says it's running great for chores and she was very happy for the new choke cable as the old one (despite being less than a year old) was getting sticky and hard to pull in and out. new one is like hot knife through butter.

We'll see how it goes. Thanks for your help everyone.

rjok let me know when you get that larger jet in, I'd be curious what you think, my biggest complaint right now is that I seem to lack staying power when going up hill and it doesn't take long for the CVT to slip. I'm not sure why as it didn't used to have that issue, I've just replaced the driven clutch and replaced the drive clutch a year ago, once I'm sure all the engine issues are straightened out I'll probably replace the belt again, because every time it slips it's hard on the belt, the belts are $70 each so I'd like to figure out how to better preserve those or keep them engaged when slogging through mud or going up hill.

 

[PRCWI]

So noticeable gas in the oil a week later, just like before, changed the oil again and sprayed sea foam through the carb this time. Going to keep monitoring for a few weeks and keep going through the process to see if I can get any improvement. Does anyone have familiarity with tweaking the carbs on these? I'm guessing it's fairly simple. It always smells like its running rich to me.

 

[DIXIEDOG]

Have you cleaned the needle and seat of the carb? Is it fully closing? It's not uncommon to have fuel overflow right through the throat of the carb which would definitely cause your oil dillution

 

[PRCWI]

Thanks Dixiedog, yes I took the carb off and took it apart, took the needle valve out (thought it was moving freely) and sprayed cleaner through all parts of it. Everything moves fine but I have no idea if the needle valve is fully seating. It didn't look to me like it was varnished up when I took it apart, and I didn't see any particles or anything in there. My next step could be to either replace the needle valve or replace the whole carb I guess. I can get a tune up kit for $50 here:
Carburetor Carb for Honda w Fuel Pump Filter Plugs GX620 Gx610 Mower G | AE-Power

I'm sure for that price it's an aftermarket carb so not sure on if there would potentially be an issue with low quality? Or maybe I should try to just get a new needle valve and try that? though before the Carb was replaced by our service center last time (which seemed to fix the issue at least for 6 months till it sat around for a couple months) they replaced the needle valve that that didn't fix the issue.

I never imagined having this much trouble with little honda v twin, I thought these things were darn near bullet proof.

Anyway, I'm up for any advice on it as I continue to go through the process of trying to do it myself and learn more about it. Any tips or ideas are certainly appreciated, thanks for all the responses so far.