Gasohol and Small Engines

[davesl708]

Even here in the SF Bay Area I just paid $2.79 a gallon... some stations around here are still in the $3.29 to $3.39 range... never seen such a wide disparity.

Of course only fuel diluted with alcohol is available... no other local options.

The sad part is here in the USA the taxpayers are subsidizing the ethanol producers $.46 per gallon to produce it as the cost would be prohibitive at the pump without the taxpayers funding it. It also produces more pollution producing ethanol that burning pure gas. Ethanol is supposed to reduce pollution. :confused2:

 

[Sodo]

That too. Feeling fleeced and double fleeced.

 

[tcartwri]

You mentioned an exhaust valve stuck, this procedure is for intake gumming. Interesting they recommend using heat.

I know this issue is is not really for those who know whats inside an engine but for those who do, I had EXACTLY that problem on an EU2000i, from using an old steel gas can that had "varnish" in it. It was so obvious (after the fact ) I could smell varnish strongly in the Honda tank. Pretty sure the fresh gas absorbed varnish from the old can, and then "got in" my Honda.

I used carb cleaner to unstick the valve by spraying it into the intake stem (above and below) and working the valve spring up and down. It was almost instant success, within about 10 or 20 pressings of the valve it was completely free. I did not remove the valve spring, just worked the (surprisingly soft ! ) spring with a prybar. I don't know if carb cleaner is the wrong thing to use and was careful to avoid getting it on any rubber. As don't recall rubber seals on the valve stems. I had this notion that I needed to unstuck the piston rings too, so actually let it sit in the cylinder. The generator was only a couple months old at the time. Its been several years, the engine runs perfect.

The Honda EU2000i engine has very soft valve springs (I think) because the camshaft is composite (looks like black plastic). The engine is pretty low RPM and constant. Not sure if your mower has a similar constructuion but thei is what I found inside my (under warranty) generator. In any case nobody ought to debate whether an EU2000i engine goes the distance with a plastic camshaft. But I think the soft valve springs make it more vulnerable to varnish. Honda sells these worldwide, I'm certain they've experienced every type of warranty problem imaginable (including mine).

Well I have no option now, but to pick the mower back up and try and free the valve. At least the dealer is not going to charge me for the inspection and diagnosis.

Frustratingly Honda recommends using regular unleaded in this motor, which has 15% ethanol from every supplier and has been for at least a decade here. ...and yet they will turn around and call you negligent, which is what really got under my skin.

Those $100 chinese box store specials sure look appealing right about now.

 

[dfkrug]

Another problem is the Fuel Tank Sloshing compounds used to seal and coat tanks... aviation use and many of the
old car guys used it too...

The new fuel turns the compound into one sticky mess... and lucky me... I restored several cars using the compound
back in the 1970's...

Yeah, I have run into that, too. First time was on my old '85 TRX250 Honda ATV. It had a steel tank, which are
not used much anymore, and it has been sealed with the 2-part system called Kreme. The ethanol in the gas
was eating into the coating, which caused problems with the filter.

Instead of using these coatings anymore, I patch the leaky tanks with steel, welded or brazed.

As for finding ethanol-free gas here in the Bay Area, I have not been able to find the rumored
gas station that supposedly sells it. So the alternatives are the quart cans at the auto store
for about $6, getting into the general aviation part of a local airport, or buying 5-gal cans
of 110 racing gas ($65). None of these is workable for me.

 

[ultrarunner]

Pretty much what we are left with... I have bought a couple of the $6 quarts...

On a separate topic... was thinking of you when I saw the wildfire down your way... glad the FD was on top of it and so quickly.

 

[lilranch2001]

Tcartwri I do not believe pump gas is the problem, but your gas could have been contaminated somehow. Honda has to put that wording in their warranty because the legend is so accepted, and true in cases I suppose. Also for the future - - there may be more fuel changes beyond their control. Or other mixes, regional mixes or unknown additives, internet concoctions, they HAVE to CYA. Same as Generac, they all have it.
Running mower until it quits is good because you aren't dumping gas on the ground - but is not as effective as draining the carb. Running it until it quits leaves quite a bit of gas in the bowl. If you are careful you can drain the carb and put that back in the tank, but I wouldn't as there could be water in the low point. Anyway the best thing you can do to help starting is to mix up the gas everytime by movement, and draining the carb does that at next startup. You might be saying Honda has deleted the carb drain. That's disappointing for an expensive peice of eqpt - I'd think about adding one. I had to add a drain on my sawmill engine. It starts first pull every spring, with last years gas (in the tank). That makes me smile.

Are you able to do the disassembly and spray the exhaust valve stem with carb cleaner? Or at least remove the exhaust and post a good pic of the stem? Sometimes wrench time is less than the phone time (or driving mower to the dealer). A warranty can be a twin-edged sword. I'd sure like to come across a Honda mower with only 25hrs!

Soto, I am glad you have decided to be the arbiter of "Truth as you see it regarding gasoline"

 

[lilranch2001]

That could be. Is that Honda TSB on the internet somewhere? I'd like to read it.

Lucky we don't have the gas problem in automobiles, I use about 100 times a much gas in my trucks & cars. And its the same gas. I bet my wife & all her friends have never even heard of it and they use a lot of gas!

Doubt anybody's dumping out 50 gallons of gas that sat in their RV for 10 months. Or 22 months. Anybody out there draining their RVs for storage?

This gas thing doesn't pencil out. Thats why I dropped it 5 years ago. Only thing I'm having trouble with is E10 boiling, on 95 deg days, in my chainsaw. So for those days I search out pure-gas. You fellas who have more 95-deg days I can imagine problems but doubt its a storage issue. And there could be ither formulations. Wonder if its something that leaches out of red plastic?

I do not recall a single person referring to cars or trucks, what I do recall is SMALL ENGINES

 

[Garycw]

You can buy the quart cans with pure gas/ oil premix at stores. I think it comes out to around $20@gal.

Sent from the mountains

 

[Sodo]

Soto, I am glad you have decided to be the arbiter of "Truth as you see it regarding gasoline"

Arbiter. :laughing:

It just bugs me that this issue is used to get people riled up & confused.

I'm sorry that my experiences mostly ignoring ethanol problems is not what you want to read. I'm sure not the only one, but perhaps one of the few who will post more than once.

LilRanch why do --- you --- worry about it?

 

[Sodo]

I do not recall a single person referring to cars or trucks, what I do recall is SMALL ENGINES

Thats because everyone knows you can park an RV or powerboat for 8 months and expect it to start next season. And run fine. Plus they could have $100 worth of gas onboard and nobody's dumb enough to dump that out. The legend wouldn't go very far there. Small engines are a mystery to most people, like their RV and boat engines. Small engines have always been more problematic, even before ethanol. Just add legend.

Its the same gas and it didn't go bad.

I supposed then you could always dump your small engine gas into the car's tank, it's just a little extra trouble (that I won't be doing but you sure can ) .