aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,985
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
Gauging Some Interest on A Weld-it-Your-Self Product Line
- Thread starter Millsonwheels
- Start date
- Views: 10274
timster2
Platinum Member
IKEA has made a fortune with ship flat and assemble kit furniture. I think the idea is great. I have the tools, time and skills to build just about any attachment; what holds me back is the steel. Cutting small quantities of parts from a whole sheet is impractical. Buying a large quantity of steel and having lots of leftovers for future projects is ok but I would rather have what I need for the job and not spend all the money on large bulk sizes or quantities.
Something like a rock bucket, grapple etc that requires a quantity of cut pieces would be the most appealing to me. Attachments that require bending rolling and/or lots of punched holes, like a back blade, make sense to get pre-bent, punched and ready to weld. Bushings, pins and the like are easy to make in larger quantities but a pain to make four of. I'll volunteer to be a test builder any time you are ready:thumbsup:
Something like a rock bucket, grapple etc that requires a quantity of cut pieces would be the most appealing to me. Attachments that require bending rolling and/or lots of punched holes, like a back blade, make sense to get pre-bent, punched and ready to weld. Bushings, pins and the like are easy to make in larger quantities but a pain to make four of. I'll volunteer to be a test builder any time you are ready:thumbsup:
Rustyiron
Super Member
I like your idea! IMHO;
1 Keep the cost's as low as possible.
2 Don't worry about paint, for those worried about a little surface rust, you'd be better off without them. If a little rust scares them, thye're not ready for the rest of the job.
3 Offer the assembly instructions on line to view before purchase to help eliminate the over eager guy
with a brand new 110v welder.
4 Follow CNCdan idea in that all straight, simple large members to be sourced by the customer.
5 Offer a log grapple (see pic) and I'll order it tommorow!:laughing:
1 Keep the cost's as low as possible.
2 Don't worry about paint, for those worried about a little surface rust, you'd be better off without them. If a little rust scares them, thye're not ready for the rest of the job.
3 Offer the assembly instructions on line to view before purchase to help eliminate the over eager guy
with a brand new 110v welder.
4 Follow CNCdan idea in that all straight, simple large members to be sourced by the customer.
5 Offer a log grapple (see pic) and I'll order it tommorow!:laughing:
Attachments
aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 16,985
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
I might put a minimum amperage for a welder to be able to easily weld it together (ie: you will need a W AMP MIG welder using X size unshielded wire with 75/25 gas or a Y amp Stick Welder using Z rod).
Aaron Z
LD1
Epic Contributor
I think the only way to make a "weld-it-yourself" kit would be on smaller and cheaper implements.
Things like sub-soilers/middlebusters, trailer mover hitches, maybe a ballast box? Things that require minimal welding.
On the bigger things, like blades, discs, plows, grapples etc. There is more welding. And more welding is going to scare away lots of people. And honestly, I consider myself a big time DIY'er. I always like making things. IF not to save money, to make it better or the way "I" want it. Just like my logsplitter. Cost me about $800 out of pocket, and I provided all the steel, alread had the hydraulic fluid, had the axle and motor. Would have cost me close to $2000 if I had to buy everything. And I could buy one from TSC for $1000. BUT, it is the way I want it. Stronger, Electric start, and twice as fast.
Now what I am saying is this.....If I wanted a new grapple for example, I would have 3 options.
1. Buy one already.
2. Buy a kit from you??
3. Just make myself.
I would likely go with option 3. Because lets face it, you dont make hydraulic cylinders and I doubt you are in the business of making hoses. So you would just be the middle man, marking up prices a tad. As to the steel. It is expensive to package and ship. I would either cut it myself, or have the local place do it for me. Cause I am 99% sure they can do it cheaper and have me pick it up vs you doing the designing, cutting, packaging, including instructions, etc.
So my point is this: Anyone with the equipment and know-how to properly build something from precut pieces in the form of a kit, likely has the equipment (or access to), and the knowhow to just do it themselves. Especially for less money than having a "kit" shipped.
Now back to the beginning. I think it might work on the middle buster and potato plow and smaller things. But those implements are ~$200 or so new from local dealers. And I would think you would have to be at ~$100 for someone to want to take the time to do a few welds and paint it. So you would have to cut everything, package and ship, and still come in at or under $100. Just Not much profit.
On a final note. I assume you are building or offering the same equipment you are wanting to offer kits for. If so, my concern would be the future. How will your products that you build be able to be differentiated from your kt units? Cause when a hack welder that has no clue buys one of your kits, assembles it, and it falls appart, he will come on sites like this and badmouth the product up one side and down the other with no mention that he was the one who welded it. IT will give you a bad name.
Things like sub-soilers/middlebusters, trailer mover hitches, maybe a ballast box? Things that require minimal welding.
On the bigger things, like blades, discs, plows, grapples etc. There is more welding. And more welding is going to scare away lots of people. And honestly, I consider myself a big time DIY'er. I always like making things. IF not to save money, to make it better or the way "I" want it. Just like my logsplitter. Cost me about $800 out of pocket, and I provided all the steel, alread had the hydraulic fluid, had the axle and motor. Would have cost me close to $2000 if I had to buy everything. And I could buy one from TSC for $1000. BUT, it is the way I want it. Stronger, Electric start, and twice as fast.
Now what I am saying is this.....If I wanted a new grapple for example, I would have 3 options.
1. Buy one already.
2. Buy a kit from you??
3. Just make myself.
I would likely go with option 3. Because lets face it, you dont make hydraulic cylinders and I doubt you are in the business of making hoses. So you would just be the middle man, marking up prices a tad. As to the steel. It is expensive to package and ship. I would either cut it myself, or have the local place do it for me. Cause I am 99% sure they can do it cheaper and have me pick it up vs you doing the designing, cutting, packaging, including instructions, etc.
So my point is this: Anyone with the equipment and know-how to properly build something from precut pieces in the form of a kit, likely has the equipment (or access to), and the knowhow to just do it themselves. Especially for less money than having a "kit" shipped.
Now back to the beginning. I think it might work on the middle buster and potato plow and smaller things. But those implements are ~$200 or so new from local dealers. And I would think you would have to be at ~$100 for someone to want to take the time to do a few welds and paint it. So you would have to cut everything, package and ship, and still come in at or under $100. Just Not much profit.
On a final note. I assume you are building or offering the same equipment you are wanting to offer kits for. If so, my concern would be the future. How will your products that you build be able to be differentiated from your kt units? Cause when a hack welder that has no clue buys one of your kits, assembles it, and it falls appart, he will come on sites like this and badmouth the product up one side and down the other with no mention that he was the one who welded it. IT will give you a bad name.
BHD
Veteran Member
If you would offer "parts" as been suggested before, and using a CNC plasma cutter, for the parts,
I would kind of think that basically cutting by order, would be the way to do it that way one has very little in stock and with the cut drawings saved in the computer, I would think one could pull up a unit and cut to order for the most part, I think I would only keep one or two stocked if that, on some items, when you start to sell, then adjust stock or amounts cut to the frequency of sales,
If you all ready have the tools and not making major investment in tooling,
I would think EBay and adds on forums like this one, and homestead type.self sufficiency types
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think I would sell the plans and then the parts, keeping the plans in a affordable range,
I know before I built my back hoe, I bought and down loaded maybe 6 to 8 sets of plans, and many manuals and info on back hoes and basically made what I wanted out of all of those ideas,
some may want the plans, some may want the parts, and some may want to buy the completed machine,
what I am thing is if you do not bury your self in hundreds or thousands in stock, besides some time if things do not fly to your satisfaction you have not lost a lot.
years ago, (the reason I bought a computer), I had built and designed a band saw mill, and it worked well, I started to draw up plans, the plans were the main thing, I had a cad program and got so I could use it reasonable well, and then I started to write out the How to end of it, pictures were not even consideration as scanners and digital cameras were not consumer ready for a reasonable cost,
any way I could not find any one with language skills that under stood shop practice and (my wife very good with language) by the time my wife supposable corrected the grammar and wording to proper English, it no longer said what it needed to, and she did not under stand what was going on so she could not help so the project died, and I think if you can not explain what is needed to the non mechanical mind and the shop guru want be,
I was talking to my son a few night ago, and this forum is funny in some ways,
this example is not real.
but if some one asks how to attach a hydraulic hose on to a cylinder there are 30 reply's, and if some one asks a semi tectincal question, there will be a few hundred views and maybe 3 replies and 2 of the replies do not really relate,
there are some very smart people on this board and some that do not have a lot of mechanical skill,
those who have the skill most likely do not need your services and it is those who do not have a lot of skill but have the desire,
Or lack of money that will be drawn to your product,
(I got a old Forney buzz box and a pound of rod and ready to weld up the world), I was once there, mine was a Montgomery Wards buzz box, ever one has to start some where,
I think the assembly instructions will be the biggest asset on how o use the products you sell,
My two cents,
I would kind of think that basically cutting by order, would be the way to do it that way one has very little in stock and with the cut drawings saved in the computer, I would think one could pull up a unit and cut to order for the most part, I think I would only keep one or two stocked if that, on some items, when you start to sell, then adjust stock or amounts cut to the frequency of sales,
If you all ready have the tools and not making major investment in tooling,
I would think EBay and adds on forums like this one, and homestead type.self sufficiency types
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think I would sell the plans and then the parts, keeping the plans in a affordable range,
I know before I built my back hoe, I bought and down loaded maybe 6 to 8 sets of plans, and many manuals and info on back hoes and basically made what I wanted out of all of those ideas,
some may want the plans, some may want the parts, and some may want to buy the completed machine,
what I am thing is if you do not bury your self in hundreds or thousands in stock, besides some time if things do not fly to your satisfaction you have not lost a lot.
years ago, (the reason I bought a computer), I had built and designed a band saw mill, and it worked well, I started to draw up plans, the plans were the main thing, I had a cad program and got so I could use it reasonable well, and then I started to write out the How to end of it, pictures were not even consideration as scanners and digital cameras were not consumer ready for a reasonable cost,
any way I could not find any one with language skills that under stood shop practice and (my wife very good with language) by the time my wife supposable corrected the grammar and wording to proper English, it no longer said what it needed to, and she did not under stand what was going on so she could not help so the project died, and I think if you can not explain what is needed to the non mechanical mind and the shop guru want be,
I was talking to my son a few night ago, and this forum is funny in some ways,
this example is not real.
but if some one asks how to attach a hydraulic hose on to a cylinder there are 30 reply's, and if some one asks a semi tectincal question, there will be a few hundred views and maybe 3 replies and 2 of the replies do not really relate,
there are some very smart people on this board and some that do not have a lot of mechanical skill,
those who have the skill most likely do not need your services and it is those who do not have a lot of skill but have the desire,
Or lack of money that will be drawn to your product,
(I got a old Forney buzz box and a pound of rod and ready to weld up the world), I was once there, mine was a Montgomery Wards buzz box, ever one has to start some where,
I think the assembly instructions will be the biggest asset on how o use the products you sell,
My two cents,
DavesTractor
Elite Member
I like this idea. But it needs to be for things that have some value, not just a simple box scraper that you can buy already for not much more than the price of steel. Grapple buckets are a good idea, and make them like the very best units. You mentioned alignment tabs, and that is huge for many items as you then do not need a jig, or not much of one, to get everything right. And the idea of buying the long straight pieces locally to save freight is good. But as mentioned, everyone talks like they can weld, fabricate, rebuild engines, etc. But most folks really do not even have or take the time to change their own oil. So your market is limited. This would mostly appeal to folks because they want to build it themselves, with a bonus that it saves money. Because if you really calculate your time, you can't build things as efficiently as can be done in a factory setting.
We sell a factory oem backhoe and I was noticing that the main boom is made up of flat plate that is indexed everywhere with alignment tabs. If a guy could buy this as a stack of steel and cylinders and such, it would be a great project.
Best of luck.
We sell a factory oem backhoe and I was noticing that the main boom is made up of flat plate that is indexed everywhere with alignment tabs. If a guy could buy this as a stack of steel and cylinders and such, it would be a great project.
Best of luck.
Rustyiron
Super Member
What I don't have is the computer ability to "model" complicated moving parts, I've tried working with sketchup and on even basic drawings, I'm hopeless. A pallet of cnc cut parts (especially radius) would be fantastic. For me, welding it all together is the easy part.
PILOON
Super Star Member
Stay with pre cut components.
Most, if not all DIY guys have sources and maybe even valves and cylinders in the grab box.
I for one have valves, hoses, pumps just in case I want to DIY something. Besides I can buy locally so why buy from you and pay all that shipping.
Some ideas to consider: Tooth bar 'KIT' , tree shear, rock rake, quick attach DIY kit, Grapple.
I'll be following developments.
Most, if not all DIY guys have sources and maybe even valves and cylinders in the grab box.
I for one have valves, hoses, pumps just in case I want to DIY something. Besides I can buy locally so why buy from you and pay all that shipping.
Some ideas to consider: Tooth bar 'KIT' , tree shear, rock rake, quick attach DIY kit, Grapple.
I'll be following developments.
FarmWrench
Silver Member
Credit to LD1. I have to confess that I have bought plans and here is what has happened.
Wooden boat. I destroy every Chuck of wood I have ever touched, then I marry a Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer's daughter who does not swim and hates all things that float.
Childs toy digger. Got half built and had a girl.
Wood boiler. Got bits and pieces and kept changing the design and then the town outlawed them. Sell some wood to a guy with one who burns 20 times what he should or what I do with my still working indoor.
Right now I am stalled on a tile plow for seven bushing pieces that are backorder. I have $580 in cylinders and $1700 in tube steel cut up and $904 in cut plate and not a single arc.
Wooden boat. I destroy every Chuck of wood I have ever touched, then I marry a Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer's daughter who does not swim and hates all things that float.
Childs toy digger. Got half built and had a girl.
Wood boiler. Got bits and pieces and kept changing the design and then the town outlawed them. Sell some wood to a guy with one who burns 20 times what he should or what I do with my still working indoor.
Right now I am stalled on a tile plow for seven bushing pieces that are backorder. I have $580 in cylinders and $1700 in tube steel cut up and $904 in cut plate and not a single arc.
