Gear drive vs hydro

[scott_vt]

Some of them a broader than others and Confucius say: It is unwise to say anything further on that subject.

Good Evenin George,
Agreed !!!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Good Evenin George,
Agreed !!!

Howdy Scotty!


Been a while dude! How ya been?

I shoulda known if ANYONE could post to this thread and do it PEACEFULLY and DIPLOMATIC, It'd be none other than my buddy Scotty!

Myself? My vote for best all round tranny is.....NEITHER. I like the IVT in my 6430 Deere. Best of ALL worlds.

 

[scott_vt]

Howdy Scotty!


Been a while dude! How ya been?

I shoulda known if ANYONE could post to this thread and do it PEACEFULLY and DIPLOMATIC, It'd be none other than my buddy Scotty!

Good Evenin Bill,
Good to hear you on buddy ! Im just sooo politically correct, arent I ?

Im not sure anybody cares that all my machines are gear, so I wont bother telling them !

Im glad you stayed neutral !

BTW, Im not haulin anymore, back to crankin handles partime, 3 days a week, and then of course 4 days off !

 

[N80]

I like the IVT in my 6430 Deere. Best of ALL worlds.

Hey, I know this won't count with the HST 'experience police' but I have spent some quality time with a couple of Case 830 Case-O-Matics lately. Problem is, I'm still not clear exactly how they work! And the guy who has owned them for the last 30 years can't really explain it very well either. I think he understands he just can't explain it to me (can you guys imagine that?!?!) But when the 'O-Matic' function is engaged you don't have to push the clutch in when you stop and start. Not sure what the value is. With it disengaged, the tractor behaves like a typical gear tractor.

I think some of the bigger, higher end Kubota M ag tractors share a similar concept, but I imagine the concept is all they share.

 

[N80]

Just to clarify.

I don't trust MY Kubota numbers.

Kubota ads and brochures for my tractor list engine and PTO horsepower.

But, I do find Kubota' specs odd. The spec sheet lists engine gross hp at rpms and engine net hp at rpms and PTO hp at rpms. I do not know what the difference between gross and hp is and the rated rpm is 2600, which I don't think I've ever reached (PTO 540 is 2100 engine).

The Kubota dealers I talked too in the 1999/2000 time frame did not impress me at all.

Its funny how that works out. I shopped a fair number of dealers with mixed results, with the one NH/MF place being the worst by far and virtually all of the Kubota folks were good and the closest one was great. So that's where I bought. The local JD folks were good too.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Hey, I know this won't count with the HST 'experience police' but I have spent some quality time with a couple of Case 830 Case-O-Matics lately. Problem is, I'm still not clear exactly how they work! And the guy who has owned them for the last 30 years can't really explain it very well either. I think he understands he just can't explain it to me (can you guys imagine that?!?!) But when the 'O-Matic' function is engaged you don't have to push the clutch in when you stop and start. Not sure what the value is. With it disengaged, the tractor behaves like a typical gear tractor.

I think some of the bigger, higher end Kubota M ag tractors share a similar concept, but I imagine the concept is all they share.

It's been a while since I was around a Case-O-Matic, but IIRC, their "trick" is a lock up torque converter. They suffered a good bit of power loss (inefficiency) in the "O-Matic" mode.

 

[N80]

Yep, its seems like you could be cruising along with the mower and if you hit some deep stuff the tractor would start to bog and you'd have to knock it out of auto mode at which point the rpms jump up and you get a bit of a surge. I don't know what this guy sees in these thigs but I think he has at least three, maybe four and they always need work.

 

[john_bud]

The 'even' money is the issue that most here are missing.. .. for even dollars.. i think it will be hard to find a similarly equipped, and sized machine.. with the same hp,, and yeyt one model has a gear trans.. and one an HST.. since it isn't even money.. you have to kick the hst back down till you get even money for a direct dollar to dollar comparison.. that is going to yeild lower hp .. etc.

soundguy

So why not compare a China tractor to a JD? Using your analogy, nobody with intelligence would ever buy a JD tractor. Or NH, Kubota, Mahindra, etc. It you are just looking at spec sheets, the machines from China beat every other machine out there with specs VS $$.

But, many people do buy JD, Kubota, etc. Maybe it's not as simple as "even dollars" ? Maybe productivity, ergonomics, learning curve, reliability, desirability, etc are also important?

Both your and N80's arguments seem to minimize or pointedly ignore those issues.

N80 - you need to look up drawbar hp. From your replies it seems you don't understand the concept.

I'm signing out of this argument now. Have to go polish the pink paint on my HST tractor, armorall the R4's, wax the rims and add a new feather boa to the ROPS. If there's time, I need to put new rainbow paint on the tire treads to co-ordinate the manly look. Then I have to do the same to the 50,000 pound HST dozer and the 4 yard HST payloader.

 

[Soundguy]

Ok.. where are all these dozens of chinese HST models.. I don't see too many of them.

Though I didn't want to start a brand wars.. if you notice.. all the brands we are compairing .. IE. Apples to apples, are all top tier manufacturers. if you start figuring in bottom of the bucket manufacturers.. you can't go on money solely.

I did hint at this earlier in my post about 'used' tractors... they can't be thrown into comparison as they will skew the results... IE.. my 70hp ford 5000 that cost me less than 7000$.. if you did a hp/$$ comparison of it's gear tranny to a new shiny gear.. or HST.. then the 5000 would win hands down based on it's 'cost'.. but i said that would skew the results.. and we should not make that comparison. i tend to lump 3rd tier tractor in with used ones... draw your own conclusions from there.. ( though i tend to believe my 33yr old ford 5000 will be around longer than modern .. uh.. 3rd tier tractors... )

soundguy

 

[MossRoad]

"Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

Oh well, I fall short on the meakness scale too.

I just spit pop out my nose.