Gear drive vs hydro

[jk96]

Some have it. Some don't.

And some may but don't need to.

 

[N80]

N80 - the very strong implication is that a gear is a better value since you get more HP/$. A contention that you have made over and over.

That's not correct. I'm not arguing about value. Never have. And that is what is frustrating, folks are mischaracterizing my points. Granted, that might be totally my fault, poor communication. Whatever. But 'value' is not the issue. If you 'value' a diamond studded sterring wheel spinner then it has 'value' for you. Value is subjective. I'm talking about purely subjective numbers.

All I'm saying is that with a geared tractor you can get more horsepower per dollar than with an HST. I'm not attaching any other value judgements to that statement. (The closest difference cited so far has been $500 on an otherwise identical machine, typical experience shows it to be closer to $1500 in most cases). That's all. No value judgements. Just simple math.

It is hard for me to understand why folks can't get that. It is harder to understand why this simple, unrefutable statement bothers HST folks so much. The gearheads are portrayed as the macho "HP" cult, but its the HSt folks that get so bent when it gets mentioned.

Never owning one matters very much when the person who is arguing the value saved by buying a gear is not offset by the convenience or productivity of a hydrostat.

Again, value is subjective. That's why I'm not arguing about relative value. Its pointless.

I will admit that the convenience factor is very subjective and hard to measure and varies from person to person.

Exactly.

 

[N80]

And some may but don't need to.

And some of us will never know.

 

[jk96]

All I'm saying is that with a geared tractor you can get more horsepower per dollar than with an HST. I'm not attaching any other value judgements to that statement. (The closest difference cited so far has been $500 on an otherwise identical machine, typical experience shows it to be closer to $1500 in most cases). That's all. No value judgements. Just simple math.

It is hard for me to understand why folks can't get that.

George if all you are arguing is that you can buy the same gear tractor for less money than a hydrostat this thread could have died on page one. I have not seen anyone argue that point.

 

[N80]

Tallyho has been arguing that point, and in fact, has come closest to refuting it with the excellent deal he got on his HST.

And obviously other things have been discussed. And lots of good and valid points made.

 

[tallyho8]

Now that we are approaching 500 posts on this thread, I will summarize what I have learned from it:

1. Dealers and manufacturers charge more for HST than for the exact same gear tractor even though it may not cost anymore to make them but they are able to charge more because many people are willing to pay more for them for some reason. The resale value on an HST is higher for the same reason. This reason will be forever debatable.

2. Some people are able to perform some functions with geared tractors better and faster and some people are able to perform some functions with their HST tractors faster and easier.

3. No one who bought either a gear drive or a hydro will admit that they might have made a bad choice and that the other one may have been better for them.

4. I can't think of another thing I learned from the almost 500 posts on this thread. I hope we answered deere755's question. Now, if people disagree with these 3 things that I have learned, this thread may someday eclipse Eddie's "Creating a Lake" thread.


Quoting lyrics from an old song and applying them to tractors:
If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with!

 

[SPYDERLK]

Now that we are approaching 500 posts on this thread, I will summarize what I have learned from it:

3. No one who bought either a gear drive or a hydro will admit that they might have made a bad choice and that the other one may have been better for them.
Now, if people disagree with these 3 things that I have learned, this thread may someday eclipse Eddie's "Creating a Lake" thread.


Quoting lyrics from an old song and applying them to tractors:
If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with!

Ill disagree with #3 in a conditional sense. -- I think everybody that truly knows from experience the value of both will be in frequent situations on one where they wish they had [and even need] the chacteristics of the other.
larry

 

[Reg]

William, this thread is definitely an endless argument.

The arguments go like this.

Gearheads - I can put more power to the ground than a hydro.
Hydro - the power loss is so insignificant that either one will be evenly matched pulling the same implements.
Gearhead - But if I'm right on the edge of HP requirements, and I mean right on the edge, your loss of 1.5 HP will make you unable to handle the task.
Hydro - If your that close to the edge your probably working your tractor too hard, shouldn't you just buy a slightly smaller implement, it would be more efficient and faster wouldn't it?
Gearhead - No, my tractor can handle it because its a gear and yours can't, end of story.

Gearheads - My gear transmission will outlast a hydro by years.
Hydro - Can you show me any statistics, examples, etc that show premature failure of hydro transmission, even when doing heavy ground engaging work?
Gearhead - No I cant - but I can neglect my tractor and not do maintenance for years and my gears will still slog through the sludge in my engine while your hydro will fail.

Gearhead - My gear transmission can do everything a hydro can do just as quickly and efficiently. Even loader work, moving pallets, lots of back and forth, etc.
Hydro - Really - I'm impressed. You must be really good because I owned a gear tractor before my hydro and I'm much more efficient with the hydro, and safer too. Have you ever operated a hydro?
Gearhead - No and I don't intend to. But I'm just as fast because I can operate the clutch, brake, gears, and throttle like a monkey on crack. I'm really good.

Gearhead - By the way, you wasted your money on that hydro. I got a bigger tractor by buying a gear. You must be one of those silly city boys that wax your tractor?
Hydro - No, actually I got the tractor that I wanted based on size, type of use, convenience, and price. Although I admit that I did pay extra for the hydro but to me it was well worth it. I do alot of loader work, move pallets, constant speed and direction changes and just flat out like the hydro better.
Gearhead - Wow, you must be a city boy. You still haven't realized that you could have had more HP/$ or an extra implement if you bought a gear. I'm sure glad I'm smarter and more sensible than you.


In the end try them both, I have. I happen to like the hydro much better. I don't care about saving $1500 on the tractor or spending x amount of time vs y. In fact I actually enjoy the seat time. If I'm going to make a $30,000+ investment I want it to be what I'm happier using. If you own a gear and are happy with it than I'm happy for you. Same if you own a hydro. Just don't tell me or someone else that a hydro is a waste of money or cant do x or y without having facts to back it up. Especially if you never owned one.

You forgot the value (or social liability) as a driveway ornament.
(whichever way you view it)
I think only rim waxers park their tractors on the driveway, so this may be moot.

 

[MossRoad]

All right you frugal gear heads....

You give the argument that you bought your new gear tractor because you wanted the most hp for your buck....

(with the exception of Soundguy, who seems to be frugal AND smart about his purchases) If you really, really worried so much about your precious cash, you would have bought a used machine in good shape VS a new machine. After all, gears last forever, right? Now justify your way out of that one you money wasters.

And don't give me any warranty, schmorranty excuses either. I want real justification as to why you spent so much money. You could have bought a lot of implements if you wouldn't have shelled out the big bucks for a new machine

Common.... let's hear it.

 

[dirtworksequip]

3. No one who bought either a gear drive or a hydro will admit that they might have made a bad choice and that the other one may have been better for them.

I guess I'll be the "one" that wishes I still had a gear tractor. If it were not for the cab, I would still have a gear tractor. Bad choice on my part? I love the cab.........just don't like the ehydro tranny. So, I guess you can scratch no# 3 off the list. Of course I might be 1 in a million,so I really don't count.

Sincerely, Dirt