Geared tractor reliability during loader work.

   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #21  
Over the last 3-4 years it has escalated to where, if you are pro-gear of any form, you are NOT PC and run the risk of being tared and feathered. I hope that us gear people don't get burned at the stake for heresy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #22  
I think those in the other camp would feel much the same. I'm in both camps and simply like to point out what has been my experience. Now if your asking who makes the best hydro today, then thats another story. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif There are times I wish my hydro was gear and plenty of times my gear a hydro.
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #23  
Joining the discussion late...

It seems if there is a weak link it would be the clutch.

I have no experience with tractor clutches so maybe someone can comment on how long a tractor clutch can be expected to last when a lot of loader work is being done.

It is my understanding that HST transmissions generally last a long time. And gear transmissions pobably beat HST transmissions by several multiples. But with the clutch, it wears with use, to some extent I suppose. I know the dry clutches in cars/trucks do.

What about tractors? Would a clutch in a gear tractor last as long as a HST transmission might?

My gut says no it would not...but I have no experience with tractor clutches, so the gut doesn't have much worth in this case... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #24  
You are right, the clutch is the weak link. A have seen dry clutches go out in as little as 600 hours in abused tractors. I have also seen 30-40 years old tractors that have never been apart. The power shuttle, power shift (GST type) have wet clutches, I am sure that they also wear out, but I have not ever seen one that needed to be replaced because of wear. Clutches are like tires, they will last along time if taken care of or they can wear out very quick if abused. I saw a MF 1250 with 640 hours in the shop for a new dry clutch and the rear tires were near bald. People like that don't have any business driving a tractor or anything else as far as that goes.
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #25  
Hi

Like a lot of stuff, the clutch life depends on the operator and the type of work being done. I would guess that loader work, with a lot of continuous clutch time, would be tougher than mowing a large field where the clutch only gets bounced once in a while. The gearing is so low that there really is no clutch slip if done properly, but if you ride that clutch pedal, uh-oh...

The clutch assembly must be the weak link, plus a gear trans has more opportunity to shock the drivetrain components if the clutch is dropped suddenly, which could incur more maintenance. I would expect that the hydro ramps up the torque more slowly.

The hydro has many more parts and seals which generally means more maintenance and cost over time. But these compacts last a long time. I would be interested in seeing some real data from JD on maintenance and repairs.

But, I still enjoy my 990. It's a simple tractor with good value for me.

John
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #26  
"The hydro has many more parts and seals which generally means more maintenance and cost over time. But these compacts last a long time."

John, interestingly the schematic I had on my Kubota L48 hydrostatic does not show that many parts. I would assume that Deere, NH and any others that offer it now have similar mechanical configurations. It may really be to soon to get an accurate assessment of their longevity since they are relatively new for across the board avaliability on the compacts, but so far, the responses have been generally favorable.
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #27  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( if you are pro-gear of any form, you are NOT PC and run the risk of being tared and feathered )</font>

No, no, Jerry. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif There's a place for all the different types of transmissions; that's the reason they make so many different ones. I've got a lot more hours on geared tractors than I have on hydros, and I like them just fine. But for the compact tractors and FEL work, yes, I (just me personally) prefer the hydro for convenience and speed, and tend to think (without real proof) that they'll hold up better in the long run.

I also think the hydro is easier and safer for a novice learning to use a tractor. Now maybe that's because I lack the patience to be a good teacher at most things. When I married my wife (39 years ago yesterday), I was driving a manual transmission car and she had never driven a car. I was amazed that anyone could get to be 21 years old without ever having driven a car, but after only a couple of very brief attempts at letting her try to drive, I went and traded for a new car with an automatic transmission for her to learn on and get her driver's license. Eight years later, I bought another car with a manual transmission (older, cheap, small car to tow behind a motorhome) and I parked it at the curb and told her to learn to drive it on her own . . . and she did. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #28  
For your dislike of the hydro Cowboydoc it's obvious you have never run one to see that what you said is impossible with like size machines. If your statement was at all true then there would not be Torque converters on TLB's or hydro's or on payloaders. PERIOD!
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #29  
First of all I don't dislike hydros. I just don't think they are as necessary as everyone claims in a TRACTOR. And yes I have run plenty of them, big and small. I'll put my 4600 up against any like tractor that you have in a hydro. If you are ever around here stop by with whatever you have. We'll answer the question once and for all. I'm not talking about a skidsteer or a TLB. In those applications and in dozers, excavators, mowing, etc. yes a hydro is absolutely the right choice. I'm talking about tractors. I'm not saying a hydro is bad thing or anything else demeaning to one. All I'm saying is that in a tractor a hydro is not necessary and for anyone that has run a tractor for any length of time it's not hard to do the same amount of work in the same amount of time. Heck most people on here from the survey awhile back only put a hundred hours or less on their tractor. What maybe you save 5% of your time? Safety, I'll give you that for a brand new person on a hydro. But for an experienced operator no there isn't a difference. Once you know what you are doing most tractor mistakes are from stupidity not the safety of the tractor.
 
   / Geared tractor reliability during loader work. #30  
In THEORY an Hydro tractor should be mechanically simpler, therefore more reliable and less expensive to make than a gear unit. All the parts are the same, except the clutch, gearbox and shift mechanisim is replaced by a hydraulic moter and control. In PRACTICE, people have been making gearboxes for a long time, they are well worked out.

I'm sure the higher price of a hydro is based on demand, not on cost to the manufacturer!

If all you are going to use the CUT for is FEL work, then hydro is what you want. On the other hand if all you are doing is loader work, maybe a CUT, which is a general purpose machine, is not what you need!

For all around use, I find a shuttle works best for me. There are some characteristics of the hydro, at least as implemented, that I don't like, and I find I am not equipped with enough right feet to operate the controls (I brake-steer a lot)! For me, a synchro shutle would be perfect (mine is manual).

In the end, there is no reason that the inherent reliability should be much different. If there are differences, it will probably be due more to weaknesses in a particular design or to the operator.
 

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