General CDL questions for those that have 'em

[downslope]

Thanks, so, for example - since per Ford's web site specs EVERY F150 has greater than (>) 10,001 GCWR they all require a CDL if used in interstate commerce.

Is that correct?

Even at least 1 Ford Explorer would qualify.

No, not a CDL for interstate, it doesn't say that. But if the GVW of the truck added to the GVW of the trailer is over 10,000, either from actual scale weights or adding the vehicle specs together then you need DOT registration and numbers and business name on the truck, plus whatever else might go along with that. And in more than half the states you need the DOT reg for intrastate business as well.

Only when the total goes over 26K does a CDL come into play, and even then if the truck is 26K or less and the trailer is 10K or less you still don't need a CDL. A 25,999 truck can pull a 9,999 trailer and the driver does not need a CDL.

 

[newbury]

2 things.

A CDL isn't needed at 10k.

The GCWR in the ford specs isn't the same GCWR in the FMCSR.

In the regs it keeps saying a CDL is required to operate a CMV.

Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued to an individual by a State or other jurisdiction of domicile, in accordance with the standards contained in this part, which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.

In another of the definitions it's a CMV if

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater

Which I interpret as if it's GCWR is > (that's GREATER than) 26,001 lbs INCLUSIVE OF a trailer > 10,000 lbs GVWR it's a CMV. But, as in the flowchart I posted if the GCWR is < (that's LESS THAN) 26,001 (with the trailer) it's NOT a CMV.

However, as reflected in this post:

Here is a copy of the new Hours of service rules


Summary of Hours-of-Service (HOS) Regulations

Who Must Comply

Most drivers must follow the HOS Regulations if they drive a commercial motor vehicle, or CMV.

In general, a CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business and is involved in interstate commerce and fits any of these descriptions:

Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
A vehicle that is involved in Interstate or intrastate commerce and is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards is also considered a CMV

I agree with sandman2234. This is one of the reasons I no longer drive

it seems they messed up and redefined a CMV.

And how does the GCWR in the ford specs differ from GCWR in the FMCSR?

Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) vehicle. In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon.
Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.

 

[Duffster]

2 different types of CMV, 2 different sections of the regulations.

One really has nothing to do with the other.

As previously stated, in the FMCSR. GCWR= (truck) GVWR + (trailer) GVWR.

Ford's GCWR is the their max recommended combined "weight".

 

[timster2]

Just to add to the confusion. Remember the vehicle and trailer combination has to be registered for the combined weight of the truck and the trailer. If you registered the truck and did not include the weight of the trailer you will be towing you could be fined for improper registration. If you had a Ford 250 and were towing at the maximum capacity you would have to register the vehicle for 22000 lbs.+/- even though it weighs much less by itself. If you don't you cheated your state out of some money and that makes them unhappy. In most cases they would only find this out at a scale or if you get pulled over and the LEO actually knows the regulations. Many a driver has found this out the hard way! This can be a very expensive mistake and can result in your vehicle being impounded until the vehicle is re-registered at the proper weight. Hard to believe but you could be under your GCVWR and overweight at the same time.

There is a lot more to consider other than just if you need a CDL or not. CMV's are covered by a whole federal and state bureaucracy and you know what they do best. :smiley_aafz:

 

[RickB]

Remember the vehicle and trailer combination has to be registered for the combined weight of the truck and the trailer. If you registered the truck and did not include the weight of the trailer you will be towing you could be fined for improper registration. If you had a Ford 250 and were towing at the maximum capacity you would have to register the vehicle for 22000 lbs.+/- even though it weighs much less by itself.

I won't pretent to know ANYTHING about PA DOT/DMV regs, but I know that not to be true in NY.

 

[wsp617]

Just to add to the confusion. Remember the vehicle and trailer combination has to be registered for the combined weight of the truck and the trailer. If you registered the truck and did not include the weight of the trailer you will be towing you could be fined for improper registration. If you had a Ford 250 and were towing at the maximum capacity you would have to register the vehicle for 22000 lbs.+/- even though it weighs much less by itself. If you don't you cheated your state out of some money and that makes them unhappy. In most cases they would only find this out at a scale or if you get pulled over and the LEO actually knows the regulations. Many a driver has found this out the hard way! This can be a very expensive mistake and can result in your vehicle being impounded until the vehicle is re-registered at the proper weight. Hard to believe but you could be under your GCVWR and overweight at the same time.

There is a lot more to consider other than just if you need a CDL or not. CMV's are covered by a whole federal and state bureaucracy and you know what they do best. :smiley_aafz:

That is NOT true here in WI. Your truck has to be registered at a high enough weight to cover the weight imposed on the truck. Your trailer has to be regiestered for the weight imposed on it. If the rig is a semi unit (tractor/trailer), all of the registered weight is assgned to the tractor. That's why you'll see a semi tractor registered at 80,000 LBS.

You must have some hardcore LEO's if they're making people park the unit until it's registered properly. Here it's a cite and release.

As far as all the other stuff, I won't even try to straighten theat mess out. Too many people with too many opinions. The only one that is correct is Duffster when he said "2 different types of CMV, 2 different sections of the regulations. One really has nothing to do with the other".

 

[sam5570]

just curious newberry are you still thinking of getting a cdl.on a serious note the feds will pass a law then the states will write admendments to it and in alot of states you don't really know if your legal or not. i been driving 12 years now and it really just depends on what kind of day the cop that checks you is having as to you getting a ticket for something you never heard of or getting by with some major ofence.you just never know what the next scale has in mind for you.i drove thru ohio and michgan 2 times a week for 4 years never was pulled over never was checked at scales 3 drivers for our company lost jobs because of tickets in ohio over that 4 year period it don't make alot of sense but it happens.

 

[timster2]

One of the problems with registrations is that states have their own requirements. Some use unladen weight some MGW some MGWR and others MGCWR for their registration documents. Depending on the state you are being stopped in and their particular rules you may or may not be subject to a fine or worse. Remember we are talking CMV's and towing a trailer >10001 lbs. here not passenger cars or campers. We all know that states can and do change the rules/laws often and without notice and there is this thing called reciprocity which may or may not come into play. In NY you register MGW for the tow vehicle in PA you register MGCW tow vehicle and trailer combined.

Like it has been said it has a lot to do with how the LEO's day is going :confused3:

 

[newbury]

just curious newberry are you still thinking of getting a cdl.

No way. Unless I get a business, a big dozer and a 5 ton truck.

Which make me wonder how many people can't work because they don't have a CDL?

When I got out of college, '73, 'Nam was winding down and unemployment was up.

At the time the recession of 1973-75 was considered a severe recession. It was the most severe since World War II.

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/rec1974.htm

I took my college degree and got a job working mainly flat roofs. Drove a 5 ton loaded with gravel and pulled a hot tar kettle. That would require a CDL now.

 

[sandman2234]

Clear as MUD? Welcome to my life! I started out just learning to drive a truck, and now I don't worry about the driving part, just what they are going to write me for when they stop me, or what rule they are going to interpet differently than the guy that maintains our trucks. (or the guy writing the checks, cause he ultimately is in control.) Last time I checked, the driver really has very little to do with maintance other than writing it up. The bottom line is we are supposed to refuse to drive it if it isn't safe, but how many times are we going to do that before they have "Mr. Unemployed" sitting in your seat and you are standing in the line he was in?
There is a massive crackdown scheduled for the first week of June, kind of makes me want to take vacation. I pass two weigh stations going and the same coming back. The inspections barn will be open that week. Then we have the mobile units, which is Florida's mainstay.
David from jax