General Confusion, Need knowledge

[jonrjen]

Ok, can someone or a few of you answer a few questions for me? Seems the more I read, the more confused I become.
I have a Jinma 204, 2 cyl. As I read through the post I am aware that most of the tractors in this area are for the most part Jinmas that have been rebadged with other names. Yet the HP ratings seem to differ. One brand may have a 25HP tractor while Jinma has a 28HP but no 25HP, then to make it more confusing, Jinma does have a 30HP. Is there a real difference between the 28HP and the 30HP on the Jinma or is it a tuning issue? Are these in fact the same tractor/motor combination but tuned differently. Is there an advantage of having 2 cyl or 3 cyl motors. I have noticed that the frame on the 30HP tractor sold at Northern Tools is larger than my 205, but seems to be the same size as advertised on the Jinma 28HP tractor.
What are the differences between the standard model and the LE models.
Is the Shuttle Shift a true Shuttle shift or is it more of an altered standard shift minus the creeper gears. Is it worth the money? Can someone explain the differences.

 

[greg_g]

Many Chinese engines share a common identification system; number of cylinders and cylinder bore. Added to that you may see a prefix to identify the manufacturer, possibly a suffix to identify an engine variation.

But of the common identifier, the first number will be the number of cylinders. The following numbers represent the diameter of one cylinder. Your tractor for example, probably has a 290 engine; two cylinders of 90mm bore each. A 3 cylinder JM254 commonly has a 385 (3 cylinder 85mm bore), but a few came in with a 2100 (2 cylinders, 100mm bore). A JM304 might come with either a 395 or a 480.

Horsepower rating just adds to the confusion. Lets take your 204 for example. Same engine as the 184, but your governor has been set for more revs. More revs, more horsepower.

Often the engine is constitutes part of the frame. In that case the number of cylinders will influence the overall length of any given model. Your engine sits between rails, so this doesn't apply. But when the engine IS a frame member, more cylinders means longer tractor. My 3 cylinder KM454 though, is 140" long. Bolt in the 4 cylinder and it becomes a 145" KM504. Tweak the governor, and it becomes a KM554. See the pattern?

Don't confuse the shuttle shift capability with a hydrostatic transmission. Think bulldozer, they've been using shuttle shifts for years. A shuttle shift design takes Reverse off the gear shift lever, in favor of a separate Forward/Reverse lever. With a conventional gear tranny, you have X number of forward gears, and only one or two reverse gears. You stop the tractor, kick in the clutch, and between a forward gear and reverse. With a Shuttle Shift, you usually have an equal number of forward and reverse gears. You stop the tractor, leave the gearshift in the same gear, go from forward to reverse with the shuttle lever.

Hope that wasn't too murky.

//greg//

 

[bluechip]

Jinma does make a 25HP, the engine is rated at a different RPM. I am not convinced the governor is set different, just the rpm they rate the engine at, I could be wrong, the point is that at PTO speed, a 25 and 28 are going to perform identically. The 30 is on a larger frame and is a heavier tractor. It shares all parts with a 354, again different rpm at which HP is calculated. Some dealers pay a little more to get the 284 or 354 stickers so they can get a little more for thier tractor, some stay with 254 to keep it in a different EPA HP class. You didn't ask about the 3 or 4 different hoods, two different gage packages, 3 different seats, etc. etc. so I won't bring them up!

The shuttle feature is nice for loader and box blade work, not so good for rototilling (no creeper) and for brushogging, it depends how often you have to back up.

Hope between Greg and I this is now the clearest mud you have seen. let us know if you have more questions.

 

[jonrjen]

Ok, got the Shuttle shift down. I was confusing it with a hydrostatic system. Personaly I don't think I would give up creeper grears for the multi-reverse settings and ease of shifting. But then to each their own. It would be a matter of use and needs.
As I understand it, there would be no true power difference between a Jinma 25 and a Jinma 28? It would be the same PTO HP and the 3HP difference would be the RPM at which each tractor was rated, is this correct?
What additional features does the LE model bring to the table?
Both explainations were excellent and have help greatly.
Thank you

 

[Affordable]

Well let me get in here a little also, the LE package includes the following add on's
1- Spring seat
2- Instrument cluster (instead of independent gauges)
3- Different hood and headlight assembly
4- Rounded fiberglass fenders
5- Relocated battery box
6- Rocker switchs

Some of these items are nice such as the spring seat and instrument cluster,and the hood and headlights give a really nice look, however none of these items effect the tractor performance at all.But I personally feel they are worth the little extra money.The shuttle is really nice for frontend loader work and is not much of a add $ 300.00. You do lose the creeper which is really good for the roto-tiller.Hopefully this information will help you.

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales

 

[JohnS]

The LE model is a number of Jinma options put into one package and marketed through China Importers and their associated dealer network. Best to discuss with one of their dealers on what is specific to the LE model.

I haven't driven a Jinma with shuttleshift, but if it was available when I purchased mine, would have given it serious thought. I do find that I use 2nd & 3rd low range gears, for allot of work. It is a nuancence that the reverse is matched to the first gear. ie many times, I'll go to high-reverse because low reverse is too slow. If you do plan on a tiller, than you would want the creeper. I could see it might be useful for bush hogging, but I use the low range, and just push the clutch in to stop movement and let the hog chew on the thick stuff. Maybe it would also come in handy for plowing (especially a 2 bottom plow), which I haven't tried yet. I guess what I am trying to say, given my uses to date, the shuttleshift would provide me more benefit than a creeper. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

PS: OK, Tommy beat me to the post....

 

[MarkNHow]

The 2 cyl. will have more torque than the 3 cyl. but the 3 cyl. will run smoother.

Before the battery was moved some people were having trouble with overheating because the battery blocked part of the radiator. I don't know if they have moved it in the non LE models.

I have a 284LE and I wish they would have put the rocker switches up by the instrument panel instead of where they are at. I turn them on and off a lot getting on and off the tractor.

Mark

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am not convinced the governor is set different, just the rpm they rate the engine at, )</font>
Chip, that's the same thing. The governor limits top rpms, the rpms dictate horsepower. A Y385 generates ~24.6 hp at 2350 rpm. They lock the governor down, and stick JM254 decals on it. Hard as you try, you're not going to get it to rev much over 2350 without breaking the seal on the governor. Now if they opened it up to 2400 rpm before locking the governor down (or used a different governor), it would get the JM284 decals.

This won't help the readers Chip, but take a look at the FeiDong 395/495 engine manual. There are 4 variants of the 395 engine, putting out between 20 and 33.1 KW. Mechanically, the only difference among them is the governor model - and the rpm at which it's set. Four 495 variants, next page. Same thing.

//greg//

 

[jonrjen]

You guys are a true weath of information, and it is greatly appreciated.
I still have a hanker to move up to a Jinma 284 from my 204. Don't have any reason other than the Tim Allen More Power Excuse mentioned earlier. I have found a 284LE for $5995, setup and ready to go. However it does not enclude a FEL, needless to say.
Does the price seem about right, or good?
Any idea what a used 204 with a FEL and 120 hours may be worth?
Thanks again
Jon

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have found a 284LE for $5995, setup and ready to go. However it does not enclude a FEL, needless to say.
Does the price seem about right, or good?
Any idea what a used 204 with a FEL and 120 hours may be worth? )</font>
The 284LE price " SOUNDS " good, but don't underestimate how much a warranty can be factored into the selling price. Tell us the extent of the warranty, and whether or not the seller has established a competent repair record, and we'll have better info upon which to make a recommendation.

Same with the 204 resale price. Depends upon whether or not it includes any kind of warranty, but really more on what kind of FEL is attached.

//greg//