Generator and electricity flow

[PAGUY]

I have a friend who told me his nephew was advised that because he has a 220 plug on his generator it was possible for him to power up his house through the dryer plug. He was told to make sure to turn off the main in the circuit panel before hooking up a wire with a male plug on each end and he would be able to power his house.

Now my friend figures he can do a similar hook up using the outdoor plug (110 volt) by turning off the main and most of the circuit breakers in the panel except the refrigerators (2) and the lighting. He has propane fireplace for supplemental heat.

Am I wrong to think he would overload the 12/2 wire to that outside outlet. He was going to make up a wire with two male plugs to transfer power into the house from the generator on his covered deck?

 

[chim]

There are a lot of things that are possible but not advisable. Both of these fall into that category. Any miscalculation could result in a disaster.

 

[beeforty]

What I did when I built my house is put in a small sub-panel that feeds my fridge, freezer heating and a few lights. Between this panel and my main is a 30 amp double pole double throw switch that allows me to select whether I get power from my main panel or my generator. This way you don't have to worry about pulling breakers or back feeding and powering up the whole neighborhood. Local power company gets edgy when trying to fix outages and they hear generators running. I have a 8K genset with a jumper to a male receptacle in a covered area outside.

 

[BHD]

the only legal and safe way to tie a generator into a house is via some type of transfer switch, there are many types out there.

there is not any state that has not adopted the NEC, (national electrical code), you may say I do not live in a place that has inspectors, that may be, but it does not make it any less of a state law,

most electrical providers will shut you off if they know your doing an Illegal back feed as suggested, and does one want to go through the liability if some one does get hurt, and then what about ones conscience having live with possibly you may have killed some lineman or other worker by using an illegal hook up.

there are transfer switches that can fit between the meter and the socket, that the generator plugs into,
GenerLink.com - About GenerLink - The easy way to connect a home generator
there are transfer switches that are set up for running just a given set of circuits,
and there are whole house (double throw, double or triple pole) switch that can switch a house or farm from utility to generator,
Transfer Switches for Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment
there are interlock kits that lock breakers out if your back feeding a given breaker,
Generator InterLock Kit
and there are some that totally automatic if power fails it starts the generator and switches to it,

and using a widow maker cord is not a wise idea, very dangerous, (a cord with two male ends on it),


If you do not think you can afford to use a transfer switch, buy some extension cords, and do it that way,

 

[BeezFun]

Now my friend figures he can do a similar hook up using the outdoor plug (110 volt) by turning off the main and most of the circuit breakers in the panel except the refrigerators (2) and the lighting. He has propane fireplace for supplemental heat.

Are you saying he's going to backfeed the 220 receptacle and the 110 at the same time, or do the 110 instead of the 220? Backfeeding the 220 will provide power to any circuit in the panel, including the 110 circuits. Backfeeding the 110 will only provide power to the circuits that are on the same phase as the circuit he's backfeeding from. So it's possible he would hook up to the 110 outlet and not be able to power any of the devices he wants to power.

Am I wrong to think he would overload the 12/2 wire to that outside outlet. He was going to make up a wire with two male plugs to transfer power into the house from the generator on his covered deck?

Yes you're wrong, the circuit breaker on that circuit will trip if he tries to backfeed more than it's rated for. So the wire is protected. What he's doing can be really dangerous, as others have said. The cost for a transfer switch is small in the grand scheme of things, and makes this much easier and safer.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Are you saying he's going to backfeed the 220 receptacle and the 110 at the same time, or do the 110 instead of the 220? Backfeeding the 220 will provide power to any circuit in the panel, including the 110 circuits. Backfeeding the 110 will only provide power to the circuits that are on the same phase as the circuit he's backfeeding from. So it's possible he would hook up to the 110 outlet and not be able to power any of the devices he wants to power.

Yes you're wrong, the circuit breaker on that circuit will trip if he tries to backfeed more than it's rated for. So the wire is protected. What he's doing can be really dangerous, as others have said. The cost for a transfer switch is small in the grand scheme of things, and makes this much easier and safer.

Yep, back feeding 110v will only power 1/2 the panel.

Chris

 

[grsthegreat]

there are soooo many things wrong with this scenario, that ill not even venture a response. there are maybe 30 other posts on this site about backup generator systems, and every-time i state how it NEEDS to be done to be safe..there is fighting.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It boils down to all hacks can kill, etc.

If one has to ask how to do a hack then consider it deadly.

When there is a long term power outage the stress can lead to a 'good and experience' hacker screwing up. What happens to the other family members if the hacker drops dead in the middle of a power outage from shoveling snow or some other health issue?

Yes many of us will hack from time to time BUT we should NEVER help/give advice to another.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

There have been so many discussions of this on TBN. It's possible to do it safely, it's also possible to cause lots of damage or loss of life by doing this.

 

[Ken45101]

To summarize it for the OP:

1) yes, it can be done

2) it's very dangerous, it could kill someone if a mistake is made

3) it's illegal

 

[CNC Dan]

To summarize it for the OP:

1) yes, it can be done

2) it's very dangerous, it could kill someone if a mistake is made

3) it's illegal

4) The power company can/will shut you off if they catch you doing something like this.

 

[PAGUY]

Thanks to all who answered my original post. The 220V generator is at his nephews house. The uncle (110V generator) lives in another area and is a BS at times so I don't know if he was really serious as his past use of the generator involved extension cord use only. I'm glad you all agree about how hazardous this idea is. Again Thanks

(This original post pertained to loss of power during a storm and not meant to avoid paying for power from utility)

 

[LWG]

My advice would be to check out the Survival Podcast and listen to the Steve Harris episodes. He goes through all of the ramifications of the "Suicide Plug" used in backfeeding. Keep in mind that the plug itself can be dangerous to you and your equipment if not used properly. You may think you're perfectly safe using it, but you have to consider that your wife or kids may knock the plug out and pick it up.

Depending upon where you live, you may be able to backfeed legally using an interlock, which is just a piece of metal that covers the main breaker when you close the breaker with the receptacle for your backfeeding plug. Keep in mind that if you backfeed and do not open the main breaker, or someone closes the main breaker when the generator is attached, you could injure or kill anyone working on grid.

 

[SlowPocono]

I'm interested in installing a safe and approved method of plugging my portable generator into my house.
All of the schemes and transfer switches I've found seem to require that I have room for additional breakers.
It looks like all my spaces have been used up. Is there a simple solution for me or do I have to buy a new house?



Thanks for any advice.

View attachment 296419

 

[nybirdman]

Contact a licensed electrician.My transfer switch is outside on the pole.

 

[SlowPocono]

I recognize the value of that advice but "professionals" around here aren't necessarily trustworthy and my budget for this project is less than a million dollars.

 

[Travelover]

I recognize the value of that advice but "professionals" around here aren't necessarily trustworthy and my budget for this project is less than a million dollars.

Check into a GenTran box. It sits next to the current box and houses DPDT switches with breakers to allow you to run selected circuits in your house. Very easy to wire and to use once installed.

Gentran Corporation: Generator Transfer switches for home & business

 

[CurlyDave]

...All of the schemes and transfer switches I've found seem to require that I have room for additional breakers.
It looks like all my spaces have been used up. Is there a simple solution for me or do I have to buy a new house?

I looks to me like you have standard-width breakers in all your slots.

You can purchase double breakers, which fit into a standard slot, but have two 1/2 width breakers in them. If you buy one of these, a minor re-adjustment of the wires inside the panel will free up one slot. No new house is required.

* * * * * *

While this is a DIY project for many, the nature of your question leads me to believe that you would be far better off to get an electrician, or at least a very knowledgable friend, to help with this project. Freeing up one slot in your breaker box is a relatively easy job, an electrician can do this in less than an hour. What you want to do with the newly open slot is a different matter, but get professional help there too.

 

[daybreak1998]

I'm interested in installing a safe and approved method of plugging my portable generator into my house.
All of the schemes and transfer switches I've found seem to require that I have room for additional breakers.
It looks like all my spaces have been used up. Is there a simple solution for me or do I have to buy a new house?

Howdy,
Since its looks like your using a mainline panel (Square D) You could go with a interlock kit. The interlock kit will want to use the top right 2 breaker locations. You would then want to add in some half breakers to squeeze the right side down as to fit the new breakers. You gather 2 15amp circuits and use one slot which has 2 indivdual breakers, and the same thing would be for 2 20amp circuits. This way, you could have a dual pole 30amp in the top right with proper interlock, and run the wire out to a generator recepticle. er... with a rough calcualation.. about $55 interlock, $12 half breakers, $20 2-pole 30amp, some 10 wire ($10) and a outdoor recepticle ($60) and your time. With this method, you will then have to manage what you power up and use. But, you would have access to anything in your panel. Of course up to the generator's power limit.

Here is a topic about this very thing generator-transfer-switch-connection-choices

 

[joshuabardwell]

4) The power company can/will shut you off if they catch you doing something like this.

5) Your insurance company will deny your claim if you burn your house down doing this.