Generator qwestions---we had serious power outage!!

[Bob_Skurka]

It would be dang convenient to install an outdoor twistlok 4-prong plug that matched the one from the generator to the outside with the appropriate weather enclosure. Adequate wire size for all four wires and a matching breaker in the home panel would be great.

My brother has a set up like this. He has a portable gas powered generator, an outdoor twist lock, and a cord to connect the two. He also has a proper cut-over switch. All wired by an electrician and approved by his town inspector.

One other thing he has is a heavy chain and padlock, and a "D" ring that is secured to the side of his house. He lives in a very nice suburb where the houses are packed 5 to an acre and criminal frequent looking for "easy pickings." The chain runs through the generator cradle, and then is secured to the D ring to prevent people from stealing his generator!!!

 

[reb]

It would be dang convenient to install an outdoor twistlok 4-prong plug that matched the one from the generator to the outside with the appropriate weather enclosure. Adequate wire size for all four wires and a matching breaker in the home panel would be great. You would then need to make a suicide extension cord ...

Pardon me if I misunderstand. When you say "suicide cord" I think of one with a male plug on each end. Weatherproof boxes with the male connector are available for this application. Ready made extension cords (with both male and female connectors) to connect from the generator are also available. Northern Tools is one source.

 

[Highbeam]

The idea of a male plug mounted to the wall and connected to the panel makes me nervous. If it was connected to a regular breaker in the panel with no safety devices or transfer switches then it is very conceivable that some good meaning person might go through your panel and turn all of your breakers ON which would energize that male plug on the outside of your wall. If my wife blows a breaker she is going to look for OFF breakers and turn them ON until the lights come back.

If you take steps with the proper transfer switches and/or lockout plates then a male plug would be fine and prevent the need for a double male (suicide) cord but many, or dare I say most, folks who backfeed their houses want the cheapest and quickest solution and may not take the steps of installing proper transfer and/or lockout switches.

Try to think down the line when you sell your home. You can take your suicide cord with you but if you wire your house with a permanent suicide cord (the mounted male plug) then the next owner might not be so familiar with the concept. Liability is a terrible thing.

The right and proper method of setting up a home with an outside plug would include a male ended plug for the hosue in a weathertight enclosure as you have found from Northern Tool. Everything has to be right and proper though.

 

[SPYDERLK]

My system admits gen power to the house via a 220 "feeder" breaker on the main panel. I use hazzard tape to fix the panel breaker off when not used. - - and when in use I transfer the tape to hold the panel main breaker in the off position. I then go out and connect and start the generator and then flip the feeder breaker on. The 12KW PTO gen thus energizes every circuit in my house and outbuildings. It supports all incidental loading without attention, only requiring consideration if the A/C and air compressor are cycling when I need to weld. I connect a noise maker to the main panel line to alert me when mains come back on.
I dont find tying up a tractor to be a real problem since we have more than one. Even the BX1500 could power things to a meaningful extent in a pinch.
Larry

 

[Buckeye_Jim]

Larry,

Again, I admit your system sounds like it should work fine. But what happens when you sell your place or God forbid you pass on? A DPDT knife switch inserted between the utility and your main breaker would do the same thing, would have saved the cost of the 60 amp breaker. It’s two positions could be clearly labeled Generator and Utility.

Just my 0.02.

Jim

 

[Highbeam]

"A DPDT knife switch inserted between the utility and your main breaker would do the same thing, would have saved the cost of the 60 amp breaker. It’s two positions could be clearly labeled Generator and Utility."

I like this solution the best, a whole house transfer switch. I would feel comfortable with a male ended plug on the "generator" end too. The switch needs to be rated for the full 200 amps or whatever the panel breaker is so this switch is not going to be cheap. Also, to install it you would need to interupt power between your main panel breaker and the meter which means you need to call the power company.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Larry,

Again, I admit your system sounds like it should work fine. But what happens when you sell your place or God forbid you pass on? A DPDT knife switch inserted between the utility and your main breaker would do the same thing, would have saved the cost of the 60 amp breaker. It’s two positions could be clearly labeled Generator and Utility.

Just my 0.02.

Jim

Hi Jim. That would work. There are some tradoffs tho. I would not want to break into mains power with another cutout. Every connection is a souce of potential problems. Also, a 200A 2line DPDT knife switch of comforting quality is not cheap. By comparison, the 60A breaker was, and the power box is totally unmodified. My alert/reminder tape serves well for me and gives notice to all who have right to be here that there are questionable points requiring my supervision. That, combined with the fact that the gen is unconnected when unused and the line at that end terminated safely leaves the main box harmlessly manipulable by the unwary, or even malicious trespasser. I would not leave this in place if the house went out of the family. If I die, those who know me know, and can take appropriate action based on the alerting devices.
You do what you can to take the prudent cautions short of outrageous impositions on your intelligence and liberties posed by regulations designed for the LCD.
Larry

 

[reb]

The idea of a male plug mounted to the wall and connected to the panel makes me nervous. If it was connected to a regular breaker in the panel with no safety devices or transfer switches then it is very conceivable that some good meaning person might go through your panel and turn all of your breakers ON which would energize that male plug on the outside of your wall. If my wife blows a breaker she is going to look for OFF breakers and turn them ON until the lights come back.

If you take steps with the proper transfer switches and/or lockout plates then a male plug would be fine and prevent the need for a double male (suicide) cord but many, or dare I say most, folks who backfeed their houses want the cheapest and quickest solution and may not take the steps of installing proper transfer and/or lockout switches.

Try to think down the line when you sell your home. You can take your suicide cord with you but if you wire your house with a permanent suicide cord (the mounted male plug) then the next owner might not be so familiar with the concept. Liability is a terrible thing.

The right and proper method of setting up a home with an outside plug would include a male ended plug for the hosue in a weathertight enclosure as you have found from Northern Tool. Everything has to be right and proper though.

I did not intend to advocate using a male plug connected to a standard breaker. You are correct, everything has to be right and proper. I prefer using an interlock to ensure the power company inlet is disconnected when the generator is connected. I would worry about my wife or neighbor trying to connect a suicide cord if the power went down and I were not around to take care of it. For my money it is worth a few dollars and a bit of time to do it right.

 

[TractorLegend]

I wonder if anyone would be willing to share actual schematic or drawing for the A.D.D. Impared Handicapped Instruction Follower such as myself for the actual meat and potatoes of a or some decent hookups...for those considering portable units

a couple other thought to ponder:

If one gets that stationary Generac 15K unit it appears to come with an automatic transfer/ startup switch---above problems solved.

Costco online now sells Cummins/Onan generators including stationary and a 6500 watt portable.
It appears the Onan ones cost more than Generac comparing cost.
I think a 10K Onan costs what a 15K Generac does and doesn't include a transfer panel ($600 additional Costcos price)

Are the Onans a premium unit more suited to the person using it more than I likely would?
Are Generacs decent?

 

[Buckeye_Jim]

There is a lot of value in an automatic transfer switch, they will normally connect the generator after detecting the loss of utility power and the generator power has come up to the proper voltage. After the utility power is restored, it will have a further delay to make sure it will stay restored and then switch back over to the grid. Then it will shutoff the generator. Some can also be programmed to start your generator once a week for 20 minutes for charging it's starting battery and testing the system.

You are not exactly home free though. Most buyers will need to pull a permit and hire an electrician to install it. Each installation will probably have it's own challenges also.

Jim