Geothermal Prices in 2009

[buckeyefarmer]

I've been looking at Waterfurnace systems for several years now. My existing AC units are now 12 yrs old, 10SEER units (3ton and 3 1/2 ton), and my boiler for heating has not been real reliable. Tomorrow I have a guy coming to give be a Geo Price Quote. Anyone else have one put in recently, what kind of costs should I expect these days. My land easily supports horizontal loops, and easy digging. I did a search and didn't see much listed on here for geo in the last couple of years.

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

look for tax breaks.......i think there was a small break but supposedly there is a little better one in the stimulus package but i haven't had time to verify this after it passed or if it changed........

sorry i don't have a direct answer

 

[forgeblast]

Anyone have luck with the geothermal systems that go down your well pipe? I have a deep fast well about 200' deep.

 

[Dale Binkley]

My geothermal system is a closed loop vertical system. It does not go down my exisiting well hole. The 2 well holes were drilled for this system and had pipe looped up and down each hole. When the pipe was installed and pressure tested, the holes were filled with grout to assist with better heat transfer from the pipe to the soil around it.

The system works great and I estimate about a 6 year payback on the cost of the system above what I would have paid to replace an oil burner and central AC unit. My first year savings I estimated to be about $1300. That was when oil was a bit cheaper.

 

[Tig]

I heated my last home with geothermal open loop for 18 years. 120' source well and a return into a 75' drain tile 7' deep. It worked great. When I moved I took the furnace with me. When my neighbour heard what I was doing they gave me their Waterfurnace. Their well had could not support it. One of those two units will go in my new home.
Grants were very good when I installed my unit. It paid back in a year. Prices have gone up since then.

 

[Malvern]

buckeyefarmer

We have a 3 well Geo system with electric heat back up in our house. The system is also hooked up to our electric hot water tank so we have lots of hot water. The system heats and cools and works very well. One of the things I found is don't use a programmable thermostat, just set it and leave it alone. They way my system is set any 2 degree bump in the heat mode will activate 1 heat strip (out of 4) thus using more electric. Since my house is all electric approx 2600 sq.ft house with a 24 x 32 detached garage (electric heated and don't use) and a 24 x 24 (ho heat just lights) horse barn my bills run $280 to $320 average.

Your up front costs will be high with lower operation costs in the end. Would I do it again, you bet.

Malvern

 

[MarkV]

Anyone have luck with the geothermal systems that go down your well pipe? I have a deep fast well about 200' deep.

Don't believe you can run it with your water well. Most around here have an intake well and a discharge well.

Has anyone heard that the EPA is going to ban well supported geothermal systems due to water contamination fears? I read something like that but have been unable to verify.

MarkV

 

[TheHammer]

Buckeyefarmer - I am considering geothermal for when (more like IF, with the current economy) I build a new home. I gathered several quotes for a vertical closed loop system for a 2300 sq. ft. house. Lowest came in at $24k, and the highest was just shy of $30k. Keep in mind this was for new construction and included running all the ductwork, etc.

I really like the geothermal system, but it's up front cost is a big factor. Granted, it pays in the long run, but the upfront cost eats into the budget for other things in the new house. I still am leaning toward it, though.

 

[Stimw]

I put a Geothermal in my last house in 1980 , I sold that house in 1999 with it still working fine. I put one in my current home 2 years ago. Here in Florida we just put in a shallow well (less than 50') and use the water to water the grass or discharge into a drainage ditch.
My current unit has a cooling EER of 19.9 and a COP of 4.0
I'm very happy with both units and if I have a choice that's all I will have.

 

[tanglefoot]

I had an Addison geothermal heat pump installed in our 2400 square foot home when we built it 14 years ago. It uses 4 vertical loop wells 210' deep. It has given good service until a few weeks ago. One of the two circulator pumps quit, and I had a hard time finding a qualified technician. I found a good one locally who does not advertise, but he charged $3,000 to replace the two pumps. (He said that when one goes out you might as well replace them both.) Now it's back up and working well. I have a Grundfos circulator that still works if anybody needs one. I'll give you the non-working one for a trot-line weight if you want it.
When we installed it, the unit was around $7,000, and the wells were $1,800 I think. When the tech came to work on the unit I asked him what it would cost to replace it now. He said $10,000.
Butch

 

[MPrewitt]

I had a local company here in East Texas quote me a Geothermal last year when we were building our home.

It turned out to be about $5000.00 per ton for the system.

I didn't purchase it. Instead went with a 16 SEER heat pump..

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I had a contractor come out today to give me a quote. Will get the quote next week. Online I'm reading from $1500 to $2500 per ton, but then I hear rumors of $20K - $40K or so. I do have room for horizontal loop, so that is less than well systems. When I get the quote I'll do a cost analysis, I have good records of my utility costs over the last 12 yrs.
He did recommend I keep my existing boiler as the source of supplemental heat instead of using electric. My electric bills now barely ever get over $100 month. I will have to replace both of my indoor air handlers, but will use existing ductwork. I found out they now have outdoor units, that look like an AC condenser, and then freon to the indoor AH, takes up no additional inside space.

 

[KYErik]

About 7 years ago, I paid about $7K for a 3 ton Waterfurnace unit set on site and hooked up + 1500 feet of closed horizontal loop installed (I had to pay a backhoe to dig the 750ft of trenches before they arrived).

I had to pay for the wire and run it to the unit beforehand and I had to pay for and install my own ductwork (they planned it out and gave me a drawing)

Zero problems so far and a 10 year warranty on parts (5 years labor)

 

[tomd999]

Hiya,

I talked to a couple people that well must think the systems are made from gold and platinum. Currently we heat the house with wood with propane backup for the -20 nights.

Both places said my 900' 30Gal/min artisan well wouldn't work and I had to drill dual 1800' wells, one for uptake and one for disposal of "used" water. Then even though the house has forced hot air and central AC ducts, I would have to have additional ducts put in. All in all they looked and sounded like shysters. The quotes were in the 35-40K range. With my heating costs now and the additional electricity costs, it would have taken until 2050 to break even.

I said thanks but no thanks.

Tom

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I think they use gold backhoes also.

High SEER HVAC equipment is overpriced because they can. Before the EPA got involved and restricted who can use Freon, things weren't this out of hand. I'm really curious to see what the estimate will be, and I will also get more estimates from others.
Last year I got estimates to just replace one of my AC units with a heat pump, because I want to move it to another location in the house, and I was shocked at the estimates for a 3 ton, 14 SEER unit. 2 estimates were near $15K for the entire job. Obviously no recession here. My original units (2 1/2 ton + 3 ton, I had the sizes wrong in my first post) cost me $2500 installed. I ran the line sets and the electric, the installer did the rest.

 

[tanglefoot]

In my earlier post I told you about my geothermal unit. The only objection I have ever had about mine is the noise it makes while operating. In its central location, it makes a noticeable amount of noise when it starts up and can be distracting in the living room and kitchen. If they make a unit that can sit outside I think that might be an improvement, although I discovered two years ago that my county property valuation on my house was lower than it should have been for 12 years because the young lady who came to assess the house while it was being built did not see a compressor/condensor sitting outside the slab and noted that the house did have central air conditioning.
Butch

 

[Stimw]

My current 3 ton is rated at 9 gal a minute and I am using a 1/2 hp Myers well pump.
It appears there are some installers who don't know about or understand Geothermals.

 

[forgeblast]

How many ton do you need for 1600 square feet?

 

[heehaw]

in this area, they usually drill a 200ft well for each ton: 1600 sq ft houses can need different size units, depending on number and type of windows, insulation etc etc: i don't know of anyone that uses the open loop type geothermal units: had a uncle that did for years, replaced it with a high eff heat pump and he said his electric bills dropped:
heehaw

 

[buckeyefarmer]

In my earlier post I told you about my geothermal unit. The only objection I have ever had about mine is the noise it makes while operating. In its central location, it makes a noticeable amount of noise when it starts up and can be distracting in the living room and kitchen. If they make a unit that can sit outside I think that might be an improvement, although I discovered two years ago that my county property valuation on my house was lower than it should have been for 12 years because the young lady who came to assess the house while it was being built did not see a compressor/condensor sitting outside the slab and noted that the house did have central air conditioning.
Butch

Waterfurnace, Carrier/Bryant now have outdoor split units, so it looks like a regular AC setup. I'm not sure how the ground loop connects to the outside units if you have more than one outside unit. I like that no AC on the taxes Bet they have now wised up to that.
Dont get me wrong, I really want a geo system, but it will have to support itself economically, same reason I haven't gotten a hybrid vehicle....