whoa!! just got the price for a 3 ton, 4 zone geothermal heat pump system...26k. is it just me, or is that a wee bit high? out of my budget, that's for sure. i'm starting to think about it though and wonder if maybe the air to air could be played with. in my area, we do get enough of the below thirty to kick the heat strip in, don't really want propane back up..trying to get as independant of oil and electric company as i can (i'm one of those people who wants to install a micro hydro power station in my creek, but that's a later post). i'm wondering if one could build a cold frame around the condensor coil to take advantage of solar gain, maybe fill some drums with water to absorb the heat. i do some farming and hoop houses can really extend a season. i have lots of wood, am also thinking of marrying the system to a whole house wood furnace. what do you think?
geothermal sticker shock
- Thread starter farmerpsv
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That indeed sounds a bit on the high side. There are not many installers, so I think they might be benefiting from the "uniqueness" of the product.
A 3 ton GS unitized heatpump costs the installer $ 2200 - $ 2500. With the other required hardware you are under $ 3000.
The big factor here is your comment about 4 zones. If it is an air distribution (in the house), and you already ducted ? If not, that is a significant cost in an existing building. If you have ducts for a furnace/hot air, the ducts may be too small for a heat pump, which requires bigger ducts to handle the higher airflow needed for the lower duct temps.
The next factor is the zoning. The only practical way to zone heat pumps is to have 4 separate units, of smaller size. This would push the equipment cost to $ 8000 +. Zoning with duct dampers is not really practical in most residential systems.
Next is the ground source system. 3 tons is 2000+ feet of tubing, with 700 to 1200 feet of trench, depending on how the system is designed and installed. A few thousand bucks there.
Your best option may be to install a single zone GS unit. You mentioned a creek. If it flows all winter, and is deep enough it could be used for the GS heat pump, and virtually no trenching is needed. Efficiency on these water sourced are quite high.
Alternatively a 3 ton air-air unit would work as well. Instead of electric backup, consider an oil or gas fired furnace as the backup. In these systems when backup is needed, the furnace is used rather than electric strip. Usually a cost savings, of course a function of oil and electric prices. Solar absorbers are a nice idea, but not very practical and unfortunately no sun at night when the coldest temps hit.
I would get some bids on the air-air installations, and compare the costs to the GS unit. Each installer (air and gs) should be able to give you an estimated cost based on KWH rate. Up the rate to a guessed future value and see what the savings are, and see if it make economic sense to go with the GS.
paul
A 3 ton GS unitized heatpump costs the installer $ 2200 - $ 2500. With the other required hardware you are under $ 3000.
The big factor here is your comment about 4 zones. If it is an air distribution (in the house), and you already ducted ? If not, that is a significant cost in an existing building. If you have ducts for a furnace/hot air, the ducts may be too small for a heat pump, which requires bigger ducts to handle the higher airflow needed for the lower duct temps.
The next factor is the zoning. The only practical way to zone heat pumps is to have 4 separate units, of smaller size. This would push the equipment cost to $ 8000 +. Zoning with duct dampers is not really practical in most residential systems.
Next is the ground source system. 3 tons is 2000+ feet of tubing, with 700 to 1200 feet of trench, depending on how the system is designed and installed. A few thousand bucks there.
Your best option may be to install a single zone GS unit. You mentioned a creek. If it flows all winter, and is deep enough it could be used for the GS heat pump, and virtually no trenching is needed. Efficiency on these water sourced are quite high.
Alternatively a 3 ton air-air unit would work as well. Instead of electric backup, consider an oil or gas fired furnace as the backup. In these systems when backup is needed, the furnace is used rather than electric strip. Usually a cost savings, of course a function of oil and electric prices. Solar absorbers are a nice idea, but not very practical and unfortunately no sun at night when the coldest temps hit.
I would get some bids on the air-air installations, and compare the costs to the GS unit. Each installer (air and gs) should be able to give you an estimated cost based on KWH rate. Up the rate to a guessed future value and see what the savings are, and see if it make economic sense to go with the GS.
paul
edski
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Ouch...that's not sticker shock, that's shock therapy. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I replaced my heat pump 2 yrs ago for $6K.
~2000 ft2 home/ Pitt, PA area/AC all summer.
Granted, an air unit, not geothermal...but where is your break-even pt? Too many years out for me.
I wish it were otherwise.
I replaced my heat pump 2 yrs ago for $6K.
~2000 ft2 home/ Pitt, PA area/AC all summer.
Granted, an air unit, not geothermal...but where is your break-even pt? Too many years out for me.
I wish it were otherwise.
thcri
Elite Member
Is your loop horizontal or vertical. Around here we figure about a grand for each ton horizontal and 1500 for each ton vertical. The unit installed in an existing system may run around 5 grand. Now if you are getting a full duct system in a new house with and add in wirsbo heat and things like that I have seen systems hit over 30,000. They are expensive.
murph
murph
Jagmandave
Veteran Member
I looked into these as I was planning my new house and conclude that even tho I really liked the idea, the saving just weren't there. Plus the complexity of the design meant possible complications later, plus plus I was worried about resale 10 or 15 years out. I decided to go with a high efficiency forced air gas/central a/c instead. It gets too cold here in the winter to justify a heat pump, to me. I'm building an insulated concrete form house, coupled with the high efficiency unit it should do the trick.
slapshot
Silver Member
I just went through the same thing. I was getting quotes for 6 ton, vertical loop for a 2900 sq ft house, and they were all around $20,000. I have an uncle near Peoria who just built a 5000 sqft house and paid about $16,000. I called his installer in Bloomington IL he gave me a quote of around $15,000. He wouldn't come to Missouri to do the work though.
Too late for a long story short....is that the price seems to very WIDELY geographically mainly dependant on how common geo-term units are in the area.
In the St. Louis area nearly every geo-term dealer I talked to tryed talking me out of it to a heat pump instead. Almost like they didn't want to mess with them.
In the end I went with two (2ton,3ton)14 seer heat pumps for $8000. I just couldn't get the return on my investment math to work out with the geo-term units.
-dave
Too late for a long story short....is that the price seems to very WIDELY geographically mainly dependant on how common geo-term units are in the area.
In the St. Louis area nearly every geo-term dealer I talked to tryed talking me out of it to a heat pump instead. Almost like they didn't want to mess with them.
In the end I went with two (2ton,3ton)14 seer heat pumps for $8000. I just couldn't get the return on my investment math to work out with the geo-term units.
-dave
kensfarm
Veteran Member
"26k" Wow.. just think of the solar/wind system you could put in.. then you could run electric heat.
SLOBuds
Gold Member
For the kind of money we are throwing around here, you can drop a LOT of bucks into passive measures.
If you are still in the design phases I would highly recommend adding to insulation costs. Plus intelligent passive solar features.
This was the big 'ah ha' experience during the investigation period with our new house. In the middle of highly technical writings about photovoltaics, the author simply stated, in one sentence, that the most cost effective way to keep energy costs at their lowest possible level is to be as smart as possible with passive design. Insulation, window placement and efficiency, ventilation, shading, in-ground rooms, etc.
And ... conservation.
Those are permanent expenses that will result in lowered energy costs as long as you own the house. Then it will also be a gift to the next folks as well.
After you do all of those things you will find that auxiliary heating and cooling systems are greatly reduced.
In my case, I will be able to eliminate all forced air conditioning through use of all the measures I mention above. Even considering that the house will be built in an area which experiences teens heat every summer. We are going with straw bale walls and some in-ground rooms. Window placements that are strategically placed. Etc.
Good luck.
If you are still in the design phases I would highly recommend adding to insulation costs. Plus intelligent passive solar features.
This was the big 'ah ha' experience during the investigation period with our new house. In the middle of highly technical writings about photovoltaics, the author simply stated, in one sentence, that the most cost effective way to keep energy costs at their lowest possible level is to be as smart as possible with passive design. Insulation, window placement and efficiency, ventilation, shading, in-ground rooms, etc.
And ... conservation.
Those are permanent expenses that will result in lowered energy costs as long as you own the house. Then it will also be a gift to the next folks as well.
After you do all of those things you will find that auxiliary heating and cooling systems are greatly reduced.
In my case, I will be able to eliminate all forced air conditioning through use of all the measures I mention above. Even considering that the house will be built in an area which experiences teens heat every summer. We are going with straw bale walls and some in-ground rooms. Window placements that are strategically placed. Etc.
Good luck.
