geothermal sticker shock

[heehaw]

i just sent you a private message with some info i copied and pasted about geothermal: for more info, doug rye has a good web site at www.dougrye.com all sorts of info about energy saving ideas etc...
heehaw

 

[JimMorrissey]

farmer, I've been looking into micro-hydro lately. It's a very cool concept if you've got the flow. I tried to get a tap off a huge column of water from the local power company to "fill our pond /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" but that didn't pan out. Parents have a nice stream I might try to bring on-line for them. Fun stuff. But that's another post as you mention.

 

[budman72]

I had the same issue when I built my house 2 1/2 years ago, a geothermal unit was going to be close to $20K, I put in a high efficiency heat pump with propane backup for just over $8K. Last winter I pulled out a gas fireplace and put in a wood burner, it supplies most of the heat for my house, but boy does it go through wood. So far the only price on firewood has been some gas and my labor.

Bud

 

[marks]

Prior to building our home I conducted an extensive amount of research on the use of geothermal systems. At the time there were only two contractors, on the California Central Coast, that had were familiar with such installations. Hence they were able to afford a premium pricing structure. Their price of $18k was $12k more than what we paid for: a two stage variable speed 100k btu 96% efficient propane furnace, with three zones (controlled by electric dampers), programmable controllers, and an A/C coil and line sets to the exterior. We seldom need A/C, however it made sense to have the option available. The advantage of having instant heat, and the $12k savings made the decision an easy one. The last detail is that a 5% rate of return on the $12k savings more than covers the cost of the propane used by the furnace.

For what it's worth...

 

[kenmac]

I don't know of anyone installing geothermal systems in my area.Just too expensive.You also have to consider future problems with the under ground piping, nothing last forever.I had a chance to go to school on these units, but there is just no market here.I think you choose the best route with the 90%+ unit . I try to push the 90%+faf (where I can) with high eer A/C unit.I'm sure there are other opinions out there. this is just mine /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[farmerpsv]

hey all,
bit of an update. got a second price on the same geo system, apples to apples and was quoted 1k less. i got a tremendous amount of input from techman(thanks again), and the more i research this the more i learn. hopefully when it comes time to install i'll be a hvac genius /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. i was very tempted to do my own install, but have to choose my battles and am doing other things that i know more about on this project and hvac is necessary for occupancy in our area. so, am looking at air to air. got a price on a York stealth system, pretty neat. 15 seer, 9.3 on the heat end...19k price tag for a 2 zone 2.5 up 2.5 down system. 4 floors on the house. again, i was surprised. i put in a 2zone trane 13seer system 2 years ago for 9k. it need duct work in only one zone, and the 19k price includes duct for the whole house. the 9k system had the flex duct, the 19k rigid. still, am very perplexed by the double cost. need to get some more prices i guess, expected air to air to be substantially less. at this rate i may have to install my own duct.
paul

 

[Edge]

I did a lot of work in the commercial construction industry a couple years ago. HVAC has the highest mark up of all the trades and most of the profit is in the duct work. Duct work isn't hard but it is tricky, and the best education is experience. Now I would never suggest any collusion in those that supply to the trades, but we made a lot of money abover our hourly rate in the volume discount we got on the paint we used. I know the HVAC guys did more of the same on the duct.

If you want to beat it, you need to find a friend in the supply house who will give you the contractor's discount, or a contractor who will let you buy stuff on their account. Of course you still have to install it. Alternatively, find the job foreman for one of the contractors and work out a cash deal. He/she can get the stuff at the contractor's discount and he has the experience to make the install happen with a minimum of hassle.

 

[kenmac]

I don't know where your located, but you don't just buy duct work off the shelf . Around here it is fabricated to the size unit installed.Alot of work goes into building duct. And yes it takes alot of experience& equipment to build it.If you use metal you have cost of metal, glue for insulation, brakes,shears, drives & s-lock machine, etc.If I left anything out Murph, please add. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[db2]

In 1996 I put a ground source heat pump in. I do know that although it was expensive, I presently heat and cool my home with less dollars than anyone that I know. I plan to live in my home for many more years and I know utility prices will go up. I think you have to look at your individual situation in making a decision.

 

[Edge]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't know where your located, but you don't just buy duct work off the shelf . Around here it is fabricated to the size unit installed.Alot of work goes into building duct. And yes it takes alot of experience& equipment to build it.If you use metal you have cost of metal, glue for insulation, brakes,shears, drives & s-lock machine, etc.If I left anything out Murph, please add. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif )</font>

No offense taken, and none intended. You are obviously in the trade. I didn't intend to imply the metal ducting was off the rack. Around here, the metal duct is predominantly built by independant fab shops in mostly standard sizes and installed by any number of contractors. Flexible stuff can be bought in lots of places or even over the internet for a lot less. And the vast majority of what is going in new homes right now is flexible. It sounds like it may be different down there in LA. And if you're not from LA, again, no offense intended. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

My only point is: I go into the fab shop as joe shmo buliding my own house and I get charged and arm and a leg. Joe contractor goes in and gets the stuff for less than half the price. I don't complain, that's just the way it is. I can either accept the deal, or try and find a way to go around.