Getting a New Deer Rifle

[MotorSeven]

In reguards to the suitabliity of the .30/06 or its little brother the .308, they are adequate for ANY game you'll find in North America. Those who find them inadequate for the animals larger than deer are riding a hobby of some kind. Literally thousands of head of every thing that walks have been killed by one or the other in the last 100 years. Yes there have been failures, some due to poor bullet placement, and some due to poor bullet performance. A larger, or faster bullet in either case does not guarantee a kill. The Stevens Model 200 is available in either caliber for less than $300 out the door, shop around. They are low priced but certainly accurate firearms. Your wife may prefer something lighter and one of the 6.5mms would be a good place to look. The 6.5x55 Swede is made by many arms makers both foreign and domestic, and ammo is widely available. The Scandanavians use this cartridge to kill alg, a cousin of our moose. It is noted for its penetration.

Slam,
I think in terms of a quicker kill and or a better blood trail. If the shot is placed in the same spot with both rounds on an elk or moose, the shooter has a better chance of doing more damage with the 240 grain bullet. I agree that the 308 can/will/has done it's job on all NA game, i just prefer to hedge my bet...even if it is only a slight amount when if comes to the big boys.

 

[greatrandini]

That is just the opposite of what I would do if I saw a stray dog. I certainly would not let my dog out to risk a dog fight or disease. I would not chase the dog away but call it in. Then I would call the shelter to come get it if it had no tags etc...

The 30.06 is a good proven round that will drop almost anything in America. It has great range and accuracy and must be the most used deer rifle. You do not need a round quite so powerful for deer. 30.30 or even .44 mag work great at short range. I would go for a good 30.06.

 

[EddieWalker]

I was thinking about this and still haven't figured it out. Who says the .308 is more accurate than the .30-06? The military use if for their sniper rifles because it's the 7.62 NATO caliber. Not because of it's accuracy.

The most accurate round is probably unknown. Too many options and choices depending on an almost unlimited number of variables.

The .308 is shoots the exact same bullet as the 30-06, but with a shorter case and less powder. Not only would that tend to lead to less accuracy, it's guranteed to have less power.

When you start throwing in other calibers and comparing them to each other, you run into allot of personal preferances, but very minimal actual experience. Somebody has one caliber, they like it, so they say it's the best. This might be true for their situation and hunting conditions, but it's never true when you start travleling and hunting different animals in different locations.

If this was about marksmanship, then it's the argument should address those issues. Since the original poster is looking for a caliber that he can hunt different species in various locations, he needs a versatile caliber capable of doing differnet jobs for different ocasions. Hunting sheep isn't anything like hunting deer. Mule deer hunting is nothing like hog hunting. It goes on and on.

The strength of the 30-06 is it's versatility. The ability to fire 130 grain bullets at small game at long distance is very important when hunting out west. Having the option to fire 200 grain bullets is also a huge beinifit for hunting elk or bear. Just resight in the rifle and your ready to go.

I know that more animals have been killed with some of the older calibers. They were cutting edge at one time. Now they aren't. You can also go the other end of the spectrum with the new wildcat rounds. They claim to be able to shoot flatter and faster than anything else around. That's nice to have, but it's really not something most hunters will ever see or notice.

There are many calibers better than the 30-06 for specific purposes, but none as versatile except for the 300 mag. If I had could only have one rifle, it would be in .300 mag. Same bullets as the .308 and .30-06, but with even more power. Plenty for elk and anything else on this contenent.

I've hunted Alaska, Canada, New Zealand, Namibia and most of the Rocky Mtn. States. I have some experience with what I'm saying.

Eddie

 

[dmccarty]

That is just the opposite of what I would do if I saw a stray dog. I certainly would not let my dog out to risk a dog fight or disease. I would not chase the dog away but call it in. Then I would call the shelter to come get it if it had no tags etc...

I love my dog. I love me and my family more. You worry about the dog being in a fight with a stray pitbull. But yet you would call the stray pitbull to you.......

I have no place to put an animal. No pen. No fence. I'm not reaching towards a stray to put on a collar and leash. I want the stray dog GONE most especially a bit bull. We have many thug wanna bees running around my town using heavy chains leashed to pit bulls. I don't want that dog near my kids.

I have seen my dog, while playing with other dogs in parks, run down whippets. If she can chase down a whippit there ain't no way a pit bull is going to get her if she chooses to run away. If she can't run away, well, that is why I'm there.

The pit bull had a choice it could run or it could get shot. I will not have one near my house. Sorry there are too many people in my state fighting dogs which are primarily pitbulls. Numerous dogs have walked onto our land. Some I know are from somewhere to our south. I don't know who they belong too but I hear them twice a day. ALL of these dogs know they are not where they are supposed to be. As soon as they see me or my dog they run the way they came. Those dogs I have seen over the years have had collars. Or like the three hounds that last visited I was pretty sure they had just escaped and would soon make their way back home.

Pitbulls are different. I have spent far more time on this note than it took me and my dog to invite Mr. Pitbull to leave. He did and he ain't been back.

Later,
Dan

 

[gsganzer]

The .308 is shoots the exact same bullet as the 30-06, but with a shorter case and less powder. Not only would that tend to lead to less accuracy, it's guranteed to have less power.

I agree on the issue of power. However, I think some rounds are inherently more accurate then others. One reason is the case capacity and dimensions. I think a .308 has a slight accuracy edge because the case is almost completely full of powder, resulting in more consistent powder ignition.

The neck surface area and tension also might play a role. Some rounds have the bullet seated deeper, with a longer neck.

On other cartridges, it might be the ballistic coeficient. You'll never get a .44 magnum round to have the ballistic coeficient of a .22-250.

In other rounds, it might be the relationship of the case diameter and length to the primer size. I'm thinking of the short and squat 6 ppc used by the competition shooters.

There's certainly a ton of variables and I think some of the "Inherently more accurate..." claims are bogus. But I certainly think some rounds have more potential for accuracy then others, though probably not with .308 vs. .30-06

Just my opinion.

 

[bbse]

As it has been stated the 308 is a more inherently acurrate round that a 30-06. This means nothing to a deer hunter. What it does mean in general is that any round that has a short fat powder column has a tendency to have a more consistent pressure curve. As stated, this is because of the case has a full powder charge and it is held back against the primer instead of laying in the bottom of the case. Of course we are talking minute differences that mean nothing to deer rifles and belong in the realm of bench rest and national match shooters. I would like to comment on the statements that the 30-06 holds more powder than the 308. This is true. But to take advantage of this you would have to be talking 180 grain bullets or heavier because below that weight there is virtually no difference between the two cartidges. Three advantages the 308 does possess are:
1. There is much more 7.62 nato(.308) ammo nowadays as supplies of 06 are drying up.
2. You can use a short action rifle action which saves a touch of weight and size.
3. Since the 308 did not come out till 1954 most ammo makers load it to full pressure. Most people do not realize that 30-06 rifles have been made since 1903 and many older rifles were converted so, because of liability, many ammo makers do not load there 30-06 ammo to full pressure. It has to safely fire in 100 year old guns!!! I have seen chronograph tests where factory 308 ammo higher average velocity than the same brand 30-06 even though they were loaded with the same bullet......I like 308's but I will keep my 30-06 and just reload where I can use the 30-06 full potential. For those that don't reload just use premium ammo.

I agree whole heartedly with the scope issue. Nothing use to drive me as crazy than to have a guy buy a great rifle in a good caliber and then cheap out on either the rings and bases, or the scope. I would rather have a cheap rifle in any decent caliber with a solid scope and good steel rings and bases than to have a good rifle with a clunky scope and/cheap aluminum mounts.

I have been reloading, bullet casting and shooting for 25 years and was in the firearms business for 6 years. I put together a lot of rifle outfits and I saw a lot of cheaping out over the years. I don't do much now but I am sure this still goes on thanks to cheap retail outlets.

 

[RobertN]

You know a pretty nice setup is the 30-06 Ackley Improved. It's a 30-06 that is fire formed in the Improved chamber, to take some of the taper out of the case, and shape the neck a little. A friend had his 30-06 chamber reamed to this dimension.

It gives a larger powder charge, but also has a nicer burn in the straighter case. It is an easy way to get a .30 "magnum" class load form a standard 30-06 action. He found it gave better accuracy than previously. And, if the pickins get slim, you can still fire a standard 30-06...

 

[3RRL]

Interesting topic and many many good replies. My favorite rifle is in 30:06 caliber and I've hunted all over the Western US with it. Very similar in performance to the .308 but I'd still the the 30:06 anyday. There are many gun manufactures with good selection so choose a reliable brand and a rifle that shoulders perfectly.

Rifles over the last 100 years have not really evolved into something "new". They get nicer, better barrels and more reliable but their basic construction principle has not changed. What has changed is the developement of better bullets and cartridge loads. You can buy premium hunting ammo that will rival the best handloads in accuracy and performance without the hastle of reloading. I personally use Hornady Light Magnum 165 gr ammo that shoot dime groups out of my trusty Weatherby. I find it a great "all-around" load.

Eddie and the others posting about Optics make a good point.

Excellent is what you want for optics....and scope mounts This is where shooting has made revolutionary strides in the performance of ALL rifles and accuracy. The optics are so good now, you can see brightly at dawn or dusk or peer into the shadows to clearly see your target. Even reasonably priced scopes are 10 times better than what they had in the 50's. Buy the best scope you can afford to accompany your rifle purchase. Buy the best rings and scope mounts available to make sure your scope stays sighted in.

This is a picture of my custom made 3 ring scope mounts. I made the one on the .378 a little fancier than on the 30:06 but they work the same. I made the bases to fit Tasco World Class rings that cinch down on a taper fit. They are indicated into position and locked down within .0001" over the length. I fit them to my scopes to sit at the base of the bell and adjustment ring to reduce furhter movement. I fit their position (eye relief) onto the rifles so that I would get 100% field of view when shouldering. This helps put my quarry in my crosshairs instantly.

Rifles are Weatherbys and Scopes are Burris Posi-lock

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[bbse]

One other thing I forgot to mention that is important. Have someone mount the scope that has the proper tools. Most bases need to be loctited and the rings need to be lined up with a bar or alignment tool so there is no stress on that expensive piece of glass. It also saves some ammo to have it boresighted. Before I had a boresighter I used to lock my rifles up in sand bags and just look thru the barrel at a pie plate to boresight. With a good scope, I mainly used leopolds back then, it worked great.

 

[Slamfire]

I guess my opinion doesn't count as I haven't hunted New Zealand, or Nambia. But I have done extensive hunting with various 6.5mms. They do the job, possibily because they use heavy for caliber bullets at a velocitiers moderate enough that the bullets penetrate to the vitals BEFORE they expand. Since the game animals haven't been upgraded in the last century or so, you don't need cutting edge cartridges to kill them. The changes made in firearms in the 100 years following the Civil War were so dramatic, only the advancement of flight compares. However the point of dimishing returns has been reached. Improvements over existing velocities will come from a non chemical propellants.