Getting Philosophical: The paradox of the one-person business

[Dougster]

See if this thought makes sense as to your situation Doug.

From what I read (probably primarily in other posts) you would rather do less, (or maybe no) handwork.

If that is the case then my suggestion is to go bigger rather then smaller in your thinking. IE, get a track hoe, or large back hoe or whatever. The smaller equipment tends to lead to comparitively smaller jobs, which in turn, kind of the nature of the beast, leads to more handwork, while bigger stuff, done by bigger equipment tends to involve less Hand / finishing work by nature.

So, that said, how bout a baby dozer or very large SS and do yard preps for contractors. Personally I feel it is a loosing propositioin (why we do not do it) but for the folks with the right contacts it can be pretty rewarding.

Given that I never intended, expected or planned to do any of what you are terming "handwork"... I actually get my hands dirty far more than you can possibly imagine. But you are correct in implying that I am not a landscaper nor will I ever be a landscaper. Neither the skill set nor the desire are there. I am first and foremost... for better or worse... a dirt, rock and stump moving guy.

But until my move to New Hampshire and subsequent purchase of a dump truck able to move a small dozer or mega-skidsteer... whatever I would add at this time would have to be in the roughly 7,000 to 7,500 lb class... or perhaps slightly larger if I traded up my equipment trailer to a 12K. The smallest dozers and mega-skidsteers of which I am aware would require at least a 14K trailer and... according to one honest dealer... would likely be legally overweight even with a 14K trailer.

In short, I would kill for a Bobcat T300, CAT 287 or one of the big ASV machines... but without the ability to move it legally, what would be the point?

Dougster

 

[mike69440]

Here is my experience.

I have to be a little sour on my excavator purchase. I purchased it for my own use to work on our someday farm. The machine has a few problems that I expect to fix and I have spent thousands on site service that taught me that from now on, I do my own work, if at all possible.

The 18,000 lb excavator I purchased has gotten a fair amount of use, but I can only work weekends.
What kills me is that I figure I have only done a few thousand dollars of work so far maybe more, but we are trying to keep a schedule and I had no choice but hire out. They moved thousands of yards of material; I could not do that without other equipment like off an off road dump truck and a bigger excavator, dozer, loader etc. It would be foolish to wear out my L39 TLB trying.

Need I elaborate on how much pain I suffer PAYING for work I tell myself if I just had the time and a old dump truck, I could eventually do.

I expect the excavator will give me the payback in years to come, but the almost free excavator is not going to happen. I think you would find yourself in the same situation.

So I doubt the payback on another machine for you will not happen, but drag you down unless you know you have a money making need for the machine, be it skid steer track steer, or excavator.

Do you honestly feel that another machine will earn its keep? Frankly the only machine that has paid for itself many, many times over is the little B7200 Kubota I own. The L39 probably 50% (L39 far from being 50% worn out) and the excavator at best 10%. I still have high hopes for the hoe.

If you believe you have the work, then asking the question should be what machine should I get to complement the TLB you have.
So tell us what work you have, I think then we could help.

PS This thread scares me enough to keep my day job, because I was thinking of doing the same business as you. I see how tough it can be for the people I hire. The guy I used recently is both smart & lucky by landing some municiple and gas company contracts, but still works his butt off. The other guy controls his own destiny and puts peanut butter on the table, but that's about it. Dirtwork is not easy.

Mike

 

[BTDT]

What about a broom attachment for your tractor? Then you could get jobs sweeping parking lots of grocery stores, w-marts, box stores, etc. You could also possibly check into restriping lots. Sounds crazy, but a guy I used to work with would do this evenings after his day job, and he made a killing. Might be able to make enough to tide you over between jobs. Are you married, does your wife help or be willing to help with driving the other rig (if you go that route) so you have both pieces of equipment onsite at the same time?

 

[Dougster]

So I doubt the payback on another machine for you will not happen, but drag you down unless you know you have a money making need for the machine, be it skid steer track steer, or excavator.

Do you honestly feel that another machine will earn its keep? {snip} If you believe you have the work, then asking the question should be what machine should I get to complement the TLB you have. So tell us what work you have, I think then we could help.

Thanks very much for telling your story Mike... and for giving me your opinion. I acknowledge that you could be entirely right: That a second machine could easily collapse my struggling little business in very short order.

As I've said before, the desired work that is getting away is typically work where the 21 foot long, 7,350 lb Mahindra TLB is either too physically big/heavy for the job/location... or... not powerful and/or fast enough for economical execution of the job.

On the low end, I am called upon for a lot of very delicate patio prep work, close-to-foundation work, over-septic work and downspout/yard drainage work... sometimes in some very small, pitched and congested yards. In these cases, a mini-track excavator or an ASV RC-30/50/60 could help.

On the high end, I am called for everything up to building foundations, septic tanks, drainage storage tanks, mega-stump removal jobs and, of course, mega-rock removal jobs. In these cases, a faster, more powerful TLB would obviously help... with the added benefit that it would free up the 4110 for exclusive FEL & 3-point work (not to mention providing backhoe back-up).

And just in general, a decent skidsteer... wheeled or tracked... could provide a lot more speed and economy for materials placement, removal, demo, etc... and enable me to compete better "head-to-head" with the various local Bobcat services, to whom I am still losing too much business.

Can I quantify the potential revenue gain with any real accuracy??? No.

Can I estimate the additional maintenance time & dollars and additional lost hours attributable to greater overall equipment transport times??? No.

This thread scares me enough to keep my day job, because I was thinking of doing the same business as you. I see how tough it can be for the people I hire. The guy I used recently is both smart & lucky by landing some municiple and gas company contracts, but still works his butt off. The other guy controls his own destiny and puts peanut butter on the table, but that's about it. Dirtwork is not easy.
Mike

Soooooooo true. But in my case it's STILL better than growing fat and old behind a desk and computer screen year after year after year. My only real regret (besides all the generic peanut butter on stale bread sandwiches) is that I wasn't smart enough to start this business 30 years ago.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

What about a broom attachment for your tractor? Then you could get jobs sweeping parking lots of grocery stores, w-marts, box stores, etc. You could also possibly check into restriping lots. Sounds crazy, but a guy I used to work with would do this evenings after his day job, and he made a killing. Might be able to make enough to tide you over between jobs.

No doubt there are dozens of nifty little specialty areas that I could probably get into with mere attachments and relatively short money... but I don't want to make this into a general "creative business ideas" thread. We've done that before. I always appreciate serious, thoughtful input, but right now I need the most help very specifically on this "potential second machine" issue.

Are you married, does your wife help or be willing to help with driving the other rig (if you go that route) so you have both pieces of equipment onsite at the same time?

I am not married (no sane woman would ever have me)... but I have a wonderful GF (who must be both blind and enjoy generic peanut butter way too much!). But she has a great day job and I really don't care to bring her down to my (ditch digging) level. As Mike noted above: Dirtwork is not easy.

Dougster

 

[jmfox]

I never believed that doing something is better than staying in bed. No different than picking your fights, there is some work not worth doing. For these jobs I tend to give the prospect valuable advice and move on. The most satisfying experience for me is having a vision of a completed job and implementing it timely and as planned. Field challenges will invariably present themselves, but experience and a good plan of attack should carry the day. My Dad use to say, no matter how large the job, he can tell if a guy knows what he is doing by his first shovel full. Successful jobs are orchestrated. This includes Plan A, Plan B and redundancy. The most successful craftsman seems to be those who attack work with passion and precision. I think this is more important that machinery and marketing. If you are not willing to do this then take a lesser opportunity, or work for someone else. People hire contractors for their knowledge and talent, not their back and horsepower. You will remain in survival mode so long as you have only your labor to sell.

jmf

 

[Dougster]

I never believed that doing something is better than staying in bed. No different than picking your fights, there is some work not worth doing. For these jobs I tend to give the prospect valuable advice and move on. The most satisfying experience for me is having a vision of a completed job and implementing it timely and as planned. Field challenges will invariably present themselves, but experience and a good plan of attack should carry the day. My Dad use to say, no matter how large the job, he can tell if a guy knows what he is doing by his first shovel full. Successful jobs are orchestrated. This includes Plan A, Plan B and redundancy. The most successful craftsman seems to be those who attack work with passion and precision. I think this is more important that machinery and marketing. If you are not willing to do this then take a lesser opportunity, or work for someone else. People hire contractors for their knowledge and talent, not their back and horsepower. You will remain in survival mode so long as you have only your labor to sell.
jmf

Lots of subtle and not-so-subtle messages there JMF... most of them kinda dark and depressing, at least in regard to my own business.

Starting this business at age 56, I will never develop the pure skill of the man who started his ditch digging in his 20's. Instead of pure ditch digging skill, I bring to the job a 33+ year mechanical/construction engineer's training, experience, viewpoint, attitude, communication skills and a complete sense of dignity and respect for my client that few similar contractors will ever begin to match. The clients who choose me seem to appreciate those qualities.

But reading your post again and getting back on-topic, I will put you down for a vote of "no second machine." I do appreciate your input.

Dougster

 

[curly]

Crocky man...I thought somebody was gonna just jump in here and tell ya what to buy...but it just ain't happening.

I'm gonna try to make myself happier at my desk job and continue to try to think up some kinda new machine for you...there must be one out there that can help or have they all been mentioned now?

Now what?

(no help again...I know, I know)

 

[jmfox]

But reading your post again and getting back on-topic, I will put you down for a vote of "no second machine." I do appreciate your input.

Machinery requires attention. With 3 machines maintenance is like another job. I enjoy the machinery as part of the process, but more like a race car driver than a mechanic. I'm trying to reach a goal. At the end of the day I clean, grease and inspect each machine in appreciation of a good day's work. If a job is bigger than the machine I tend to rent rather than risk the integrity of my fleet.

You are well spoken, experienced and thoughtful. It's not the quantity of the machine(s) but whether it enhances and multiplies your unique and appreciated skills.

jmf

 

[Dougster]

Crocky man...I thought somebody was gonna just jump in here and tell ya what to buy...but it just ain't happening. I'm gonna try to make myself happier at my desk job and continue to try to think up some kinda new machine for you...there must be one out there that can help or have they all been mentioned now? Now what? (no help again...I know, I know)

Well, I think the popular vote so far is clearly for sitting tight and to not buy anything right now... which, I admit, is a very tough position to argue against with someone who is not receiving the calls I'm receiving every week.

I don't expect someone to suddenly pop in with an instant answer to buy this or that machine. What I had really hoped for is someone with their own one person business to tell me what he or she did or didn't do... and how it worked out.

But while there are clearly some very successful business folks here on TBN... few are currently running one person, one machine operations like mine. And those that may have started out that way long ago have probably forgotten the stage where I am at right now: i.e., made all of the mistakes and finally starting to get on cruise control, but clearly in need of expanded range to become fully sustainable.

Dougster