Getting started in hay making... Basic set-up

[ProjectKing]

Hello,

I'm interested in getting started in square bale production. Small square bales around 50 lbs.

Currently I have a Kubota L3830 with loader. Also have a 1953 Ford Golden Jubilee.

Basically I need advice on picking good quality used equipment. Cost for this project is a big factor. I want best quality as well. So over the last 50 years which balers, cutting bars, etc were the best.

I will need a mower. Should it be a sickle or disc type? What brand is best?

I will need a rake... I'm familiar with the trail type New Hollands. Any other suggestions?

Baler.... Need one of those too.... I've heard New Holland and John Deere are the best for square balers. Which models are the best?

Bale collector... I really want to automate process of picking up and stacking bales. Anyone using collectors?

Thank you for any advise.

 

[Nissan197]

I will tell you what I have. I have a Massey Ferguson sickle mower, IH bar rake, and an IH square baler. Been using this setup for the last three years and use a Mahindra 3215 (32 H.P.) to operate it all. I have had pretty good luck, granted I only bale 10 acres which is flat. I don't have a kicker so the bales go on the ground and I have to go back and pick them up. It seems every year I have a harder time finding help. Although I have had good luck with my brands I have heard good things about JD and NH. I think parts availability are a lot better for those brands. I am hoping in the next couple of years to locate around a 65 HP cabbed tractor then I can operate a disc mower and a smaller round baler.

 

[D2Cat]

You want square bales. So do you have a reason/purpose for small squares? What type of grass do you have? You selling hay to horse owners? Is this operation for personal use? How many acres you cutting? Are you mechanically inclined?

Your answers would determine my comments.

For example, if you don't have a profitable market for selling square bales, I'd say don't bale them. Get a small round baler. Maintenance, parts and your time for repairs plus handling, storing small square bales makes a hobby become work.

 

[vtlpluyr]

Nissan197 has the perfect set up for that tractor IMHO. I just went through the square baler selection process, I got a John Deere but there are many good ones out there. Any well maintained JD or NH is fine from what I have learned. I also have a neighbour who believes that the Massey 124 is amazing. You will want a small one because you only have like 32 pto hp. There are lots of threads on this forum about small square balers.

There are many used inexpensive sickle bar mowers out there - I used to have a NH451. It worked great and never needed anything other than minor work on the knives. A NH or a JD might be good from a parts perspective - I cannot speak for other brands. Your tractor is a little small for a discbine or a haybine I think, however others on the forum would know better. I would suggest finding an older crimper if you stick to a sickle bar mower. It will add an extra operation causing you to run around your fields one extra time but you won't need a larger tractor and your hay will dry faster.

I personally have a Massey 37 side delivery rake. It has slept outside for the past 30 years because we have no room in sheds (where our 2 newer ones live), that said we have used it many times over the years as a spare. It worked every time flawlessly despite it being treated like scrap metal. From what I have read and have been told, the NH256 side delivery is the gold standard for this kind of rake.

A used automatic Allied stooker with a Briggs motor might be your best bet as a collector. I have seen them for sale all over the place. You would pay about $300 but would no-doubt need a new engine, so add $350 or $400 for a Lifan or something. There are forks that can be fitted to your loader so when its time to pick up your bales you just lift up the stook and and put it on the wagon for somebody placing the load. I must admit that I have never seen one work. The only ones I have seen working were manual so there was a guy standing on the stooker loading the bales by hand behind the baler, then triggering a spring when a stook was complete. I'm sure many others on the forum could talk to the automatic ones better.

Where I am from, the Massey 135 (same size as yours) and the Ford 3000 (slighter more HP than yours) were the standard / common tractors for many beef farms of 200 ac or less until the mid 70's / early 80's. They did everything and people got on just fine, and ran hay equipment similar to what has been described here. You can make a lot of hay this way.

Best of luck - making hay is incredibly fun!

 

[ProjectKing]

I will tell you what I have. I have a Massey Ferguson sickle mower, IH bar rake, and an IH square baler. Been using this setup for the last three years and use a Mahindra 3215 (32 H.P.) to operate it all. I have had pretty good luck, granted I only bale 10 acres which is flat. I don't have a kicker so the bales go on the ground and I have to go back and pick them up. It seems every year I have a harder time finding help. Although I have had good luck with my brands I have heard good things about JD and NH. I think parts availability are a lot better for those brands. I am hoping in the next couple of years to locate around a 65 HP cabbed tractor then I can operate a disc mower and a smaller round baler.

Thanks for the reply! Good to hear someone is using a 30+ hp tractor for baling. What do you do with your bales? Sell them?

 

[ProjectKing]

You want square bales. So do you have a reason/purpose for small squares? What type of grass do you have? You selling hay to horse owners? Is this operation for personal use? How many acres you cutting? Are you mechanically inclined? Your answers would determine my comments. For example, if you don't have a profitable market for selling square bales, I'd say don't bale them. Get a small round baler. Maintenance, parts and your time for repairs plus handling, storing small square bales makes a hobby become work.

Reason for square bales is possibly easier to sell to horse people that are near by. However your thoughts about a small round baler are interesting. Certainly easier to mechanize round bales. Any idea which one offers higher prices in the "real world"?

Hay operation would be 100% sell. I have no use for hay other than to sell. Currently have farm 50 miles away that is leased to dairy farmer... I get portion of hay profit. Locally I would potentially cut and bale 10 acres.

Yes I'm very mechanically inclined.

Storage of square bales is a big issue. I currently do not have much room to store bales. And would prefer to store them in a separate barn due to fire concern. Building a hay shelter would be an expensive undertaking. The small round bale idea is intriguing.

I would also considering buying an older John Deere around 60 hp if baling operation did okay.

 

[ProjectKing]

Nissan197 has the perfect set up for that tractor IMHO. I just went through the square baler selection process, I got a John Deere but there are many good ones out there. Any well maintained JD or NH is fine from what I have learned. I also have a neighbour who believes that the Massey 124 is amazing. You will want a small one because you only have like 32 pto hp. There are lots of threads on this forum about small square balers. There are many used inexpensive sickle bar mowers out there - I used to have a NH451. It worked great and never needed anything other than minor work on the knives. A NH or a JD might be good from a parts perspective - I cannot speak for other brands. Your tractor is a little small for a discbine or a haybine I think, however others on the forum would know better. I would suggest finding an older crimper if you stick to a sickle bar mower. It will add an extra operation causing you to run around your fields one extra time but you won't need a larger tractor and your hay will dry faster. I personally have a Massey 37 side delivery rake. It has slept outside for the past 30 years because we have no room in sheds (where our 2 newer ones live), that said we have used it many times over the years as a spare. It worked every time flawlessly despite it being treated like scrap metal. From what I have read and have been told, the NH256 side delivery is the gold standard for this kind of rake. A used automatic Allied stooker with a Briggs motor might be your best bet as a collector. I have seen them for sale all over the place. You would pay about $300 but would no-doubt need a new engine, so add $350 or $400 for a Lifan or something. There are forks that can be fitted to your loader so when its time to pick up your bales you just lift up the stook and and put it on the wagon for somebody placing the load. I must admit that I have never seen one work. The only ones I have seen working were manual so there was a guy standing on the stooker loading the bales by hand behind the baler, then triggering a spring when a stook was complete. I'm sure many others on the forum could talk to the automatic ones better. Where I am from, the Massey 135 (same size as yours) and the Ford 3000 (slighter more HP than yours) were the standard / common tractors for many beef farms of 200 ac or less until the mid 70's / early 80's. They did everything and people got on just fine, and ran hay equipment similar to what has been described here. You can make a lot of hay this way. Best of luck - making hay is incredibly fun!

Great information. And good point about the smaller equipment in the mid 70's.

What is the crimper you speak of concerning the sickle mower?

 

[powerscol]

Good advice so far. Search my user name and you will find a lot of information and advice. Spend you money on a good baler. I am sold on inline MF 1835 or similar. I'm running a Hesston 4550 with 26.5 PTO HP (less at my altitude) without issue. I upgraded to a drum mower for next year, but had good luck with an IH 1300 sickle mower. I'm using a side deliver rake (Ford 503) with some issue on heavy wind rows and looking to upgrade to a rotary rake. You don't say where you are from, so depending on weather you may need a tedder.

Good luck - get training on how and when to bale - don't need to BBQ your bar. A moisture meter is a must have in my book.

 

[vtlpluyr]

Great information. And good point about the smaller equipment in the mid 70's.

What is the crimper you speak of concerning the sickle mower?

A crimper has rollers like a haybine - it picks up the hay that you mowed and squeezes it between the rollers breaking the stems every few inches. This allows the hay to dry much faster. You may want a tedder also. Old crimpers and tedders are hundreds of dollars each - not great capacity at that price but they will work. You can got to youtube and see all of this stuff working.

If you make your hay properly there is no need to worry about fire. Our barn is from the 1800's and it stored 6000 bales a year for 50 ish years with no problems.

Round baling is another way to go but a lot more investment. To avoid buying a new tractor, and spending crazy money, you could look at a New Idea 4x4 soft core round baler (grey in colour from the early 80's), very high quality in terms of build. It was by no means a high capacity machine. My cousins had a small tractor and bought some sort of extra gear (or reducer) or something that allowed it to work for them. Also New Holland made a chain baler, an 848 model number, there are many around in the used market. They build up pressure on the bale using air bags from semi trucks. If you can find somebody who knows them well enough to judge the apron chain they are a great beginner's round baler. They can also make silage which opens up other possibilities if somebody around you custom wraps (or you could buy silage bags)... My fear however is that your tractor may be able to run the 848 but it lacks the mass required to slow it down and stop it on hills and stuff. I suggest sticking to small square bales if at all possible - if there are horses nearby there are usually customers - check out Craig's List or Kijiji for your area to see what they sell for. My father used to say that really good hay always sells regardless of market, or the economy...

 

[TractorGuy]

I don't know anything about haying but to add to the discussion a local large animal vet told me that most of the colic cases they see in horses are animals being fed with round bales. They recommended only using square bales for horses. I did not go into the reasoning behind it. Just repeating what I was told about round versus square.