Global Warming News

[dave1949]

But was it a good use of tax dollars? Were the old boilers reused, left in place or replaced. If the old boilers were kept and able to use either oil or wood then it might make money sense. But if new boilers had to purchased was that a wise use of money?

I looked at pellet stoves. There was no reason to own one to save money. In fact it would likely cost me more money compared to heating with electric because of the high cost of the pellets. And I studied the stoves before the pellet prices increased. Getting the pellets can be erratic. The WSJ had a story a year or so back about the shortage of wood pellets due to the lack of demand for lumber. No lumber means there is no sawdust to make into pellets. Lack of pellets but lots of demand drove up prices. Like any commodity.

I dont see how the use of forest biomass amounts to a poot in a hurricane compared to the overall energy requirements of the US. If it makes money sense in a given area that is great it should be used. But I don't see how it will effect national energy usage.

Later,
Dan

The pellet boilers were part of new buildings or when the old oil-fired boilers had to be replaced or extensively rebuilt.

The availability and quality of pellets does vary. The worst periods are when oil prices skyrocket and everyone runs out and buys a wood burner of some type.


As to cost and local benefits, here is an excerpt from the linked article (Mar 2008): Wood pellets, oil compete for heating

The task force is expected to make its recommendations to the governor by June. Early calculations suggest, for example, that producing and burning an additional 300,000 tons a year of wood pellets could generate $150 million in benefits for Maine linked to harvesting revenue, lower heating costs and local spending, according to Les Otten, the task force chair. Otten, former owner of the Sunday River and Sugarloaf ski areas, recently formed a business looking at alternative energy investment opportunities.

The task force has just begun collecting information, Otten said, and many questions remain unanswered. Among them is how much a cash-strapped state government can or should do to promote a major conversion from oil to wood, and what should be left to the private market.

There is wide agreement on one point: Wood heat is much cheaper today than oil. To get the heat output of 1 million BTUs, figuring the same efficiencies and current prices, it costs $19.05 with wood pellets, compared to $29.53 with oil.

At the time of this article, oil was trading for $110/bbl. We could easily see that oil price again if the global economy improves.

Certainly forest biomass energy is no panacea for a national energy strategy. But, in some locations, it can work economically. It also allows a local community to keep some of it's income at home rather than sending it outside. That can mean a lot to a rural economy. Like you say, if it works, then use it our advantage.
Dave.

 

[Pilot]

There are a few things to note in the quoted article.

"...could generate $150 million..." doesn't mean will. Depends on validity of assumptions.

Take a look here: www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls You can input your own numbers for the fuel costs and then compare the cost per million BTU. With the numbers the Dep't of Energy used, pellets cost $22.28 per million BTU and oil was $21.29. Those costs are so close I would make a decision on other criteria, two of which would be reliability and consistency of supply. As was noted, pellet supply varies with logging activity since it is a byproduct.

"Otten, former owner of the Sunday River and Sugarloaf ski areas, recently formed a business looking at alternative energy investment opportunities." Note that he has a financial interest in the state's decision.

 

[Jstpssng]

The pellet boilers were part of new buildings or when the old oil-fired boilers had to be replaced or extensively rebuilt.

The availability and quality of pellets does vary. The worst periods are when oil prices skyrocket and everyone runs out and buys a wood burner of some type.


As to cost and local benefits, here is an excerpt from the linked article (Mar 2008): Wood pellets, oil compete for heating

The task force is expected to make its recommendations to the governor by June. Early calculations suggest, for example, that producing and burning an additional 300,000 tons a year of wood pellets could generate $150 million in benefits for Maine linked to harvesting revenue, lower heating costs and local spending, according to Les Otten, the task force chair. Otten, former owner of the Sunday River and Sugarloaf ski areas, recently formed a business looking at alternative energy investment opportunities.

The task force has just begun collecting information, Otten said, and many questions remain unanswered. Among them is how much a cash-strapped state government can or should do to promote a major conversion from oil to wood, and what should be left to the private market.

There is wide agreement on one point: Wood heat is much cheaper today than oil. To get the heat output of 1 million BTUs, figuring the same efficiencies and current prices, it costs $19.05 with wood pellets, compared to $29.53 with oil.

At the time of this article, oil was trading for $110/bbl. We could easily see that oil price again if the global economy improves.

Certainly forest biomass energy is no panacea for a national energy strategy. But, in some locations, it can work economically. It also allows a local community to keep some of it's income at home rather than sending it outside. That can mean a lot to a rural economy. Like you say, if it works, then use it our advantage.
Dave.

While I have my own opinions on global warming I didn't read the entire 97 pages of this thread. However, I do feel that my position as a Maine forester gives me knowledge to expand on Dave's post. I especially liked his last comment, as I feel the same way. Let's start to use whatever alternative to oil is available to produce electricity and heat our homes, so we can save the oil for our autos and equipment.

The biomass industry in Maine flucuates with the price of oil; we have several wood waste to electricity plants scattered throughout the state. (Is the Gorbel plant still operating down there in Athens, Dave?)
Recently President Obama (motto; spend all you want... we'll print more) introduced a subsidy program that increased the amount landowners got paid for junk wood.
Biomass Crop Assistance Program

I'm not big on government intervention; however, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

For my part, though I'll be cleaning my lot and sending a couple of loads (+_ 50 tons) to the mill this summer I won't participate in the program.

One of the latest buzzwords is CO2; what many don't realise is that a tree ties up CO2 whether it is growing, cut down and put into a 2x4, or used in paper; the only way it's unlocked is by burning it or by letting it die and rot back into the ground.

I'm fortunate to work for a forest management company which practices "sustainable harvesting"; this means that we don't cut anymore than the land is growing. We have an ongoing timber inventory, and measure volume on each parcel every 10 years so we know if we need to adjust our harvest level; and the department head is very proficient (and sometimes ****) about using that data to keep on track.

 

[dave1949]

There are a few things to note in the quoted article.

"...could generate $150 million..." doesn't mean will. Depends on validity of assumptions.

Take a look here: www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls You can input your own numbers for the fuel costs and then compare the cost per million BTU. With the numbers the Dep't of Energy used, pellets cost $22.28 per million BTU and oil was $21.29. Those costs are so close I would make a decision on other criteria, two of which would be reliability and consistency of supply. As was noted, pellet supply varies with logging activity since it is a byproduct.

"Otten, former owner of the Sunday River and Sugarloaf ski areas, recently formed a business looking at alternative energy investment opportunities." Note that he has a financial interest in the state's decision.

Les Otten is now a candidate in the republican primary contest for state governor. Just FYI. The previous Maine governor, Angus King (Ind) is now an investor in a wind energy program.

Yes, the per mbtu values are within $1 now with oil at moderate prices. #2 oil will not stay at $2.30/gal when the economy recovers if history is any guide. It will easily push to near $3/gal and could go much higher IMO.

As to supply consistency, a stable oil price in the > $3/gal range will create that market on it's own; there will be profits to be made. The way oil prices have whipsawed the past several years, it makes it difficult to fund alternative sources. Don't know if that is by design or happenstance, maybe it's a conspiracy - of short term thinking.

Dave.

 

[dave1949]

While I have my own opinions on global warming I didn't read the entire 97 pages of this thread. However, I do feel that my position as a Maine forester gives me knowledge to expand on Dave's post. I especially liked his last comment, as I feel the same way. Let's start to use whatever alternative to oil is available to produce electricity and heat our homes, so we can save the oil for our autos and equipment.

The biomass industry in Maine flucuates with the price of oil; we have several wood waste to electricity plants scattered throughout the state. (Is the Gorbel plant still operating down there in Athens, Dave?)
Recently President Obama (motto; spend all you want... we'll print more) introduced a subsidy program that increased the amount landowners got paid for junk wood.
Biomass Crop Assistance Program

I'm not big on government intervention; however, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

For my part, though I'll be cleaning my lot and sending a couple of loads (+_ 50 tons) to the mill this summer I won't participate in the program.

.

Thanks for your input.

The only plant I know about in Athens is the pellet mill, which had some sort of explosion last Fall and is being repaired I believe.

I took a quick look - until my head began to hurt - at the BCAP docs. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I haven't heard much about the cellulose to fuel research programs for several months either.

When you say 'clean out' your wood lot, are you planning a thinning or stand improvement cut this year?
Dave.

 

[dcyrilc]

There are a few things to note in the quoted article.

"...could generate $150 million..." doesn't mean will. Depends on validity of assumptions.

Take a look here: www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls You can input your own numbers for the fuel costs and then compare the cost per million BTU. With the numbers the Dep't of Energy used, pellets cost $22.28 per million BTU and oil was $21.29. Those costs are so close I would make a decision on other criteria, two of which would be reliability and consistency of supply. As was noted, pellet supply varies with logging activity since it is a byproduct.

"Otten, former owner of the Sunday River and Sugarloaf ski areas, recently formed a business looking at alternative energy investment opportunities." Note that he has a financial interest in the state's decision.

I'm always amazed that someone who has a financial interest is an outcome can be incharge of data gathering for the government.

 

[Jstpssng]

Thanks for your input.

The only plant I know about in Athens is the pellet mill, which had some sort of explosion last Fall and is being repaired I believe.

I took a quick look - until my head began to hurt - at the BCAP docs. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I haven't heard much about the cellulose to fuel research programs for several months either.

When you say 'clean out' your wood lot, are you planning a thinning or stand improvement cut this year?
Dave.

Short answer, yes.

I bought my 21 acres in 2001, and have been gradually trying to improve the stand quality.
i've taken about 220 cords of pulpwood and sawlogs off it, and am now working on 2 more loads of hardwood pulp and that many more of biomass... mostly softwood junk, dead wood, and some oversized hemlock that's just taking up space. Some of the biomass is in an old 2 acre field that I plan to reclaim. I believe the plant you mention use to be a biomass to electricity site, glad to hear it's still be utilised.

 

[Jstpssng]

I'm always amazed that someone who has a financial interest is an outcome can be incharge of data gathering for the government.

Although he's a successful businessman, he's also pals with our governor.

The only good thing I can say about Maine's esteemed leader is that he won't be there much longer. I hate to say it, but anytime I hear Baldacci's name associated with any business endeavor I cringe, knowing it'll cost us taxpayers money and won't last beyond the entitlement.

 

[dave1949]

I'm always amazed that someone who has a financial interest is an outcome can be incharge of data gathering for the government.

That is a touchy arrangement. Les Otten has had his ups and downs in the ski business. A bankruptcy that left a bad taste for some. Has a bit of a wheeler-dealer reputation. Used to own a share of the Boston Red Sox too. Some credit him with saving the ski industry in Maine and New Hampshire, don't know if that is hyperbole or fact.

Maine is a poor state, I guess some things get overlooked. I am sure as a republican, he is not in cahoots with the current governor or state legislature which are both democrat.

I don't know if he has divested his business interests since running for governor in the 2010 election.

The former governor, Angus King (IND) is a major investor in a Maine wind energy program. He was wealthy before he was governor and is considered a pretty straight shooter.
Dave.

 

[dave1949]

Although he's a successful businessman, he's also pals with our governor.

The only good thing I can say about Maine's esteemed leader is that he won't be there much longer. I hate to say it, but anytime I hear Baldacci's name associated with any business endeavor I cringe, knowing it'll cost us taxpayers money and won't last beyond the entitlement.

Didn't know he and Baldacci are pals. Baldacci has odd ideas sometimes. He hasn't been the best governor. The school consolidation thing is still a mess, it was very capricious to begin with. Like a bad idea somebody hatched in a vacuum.
Dave.