turnkey4099
Elite Member
That last bit is so, so true. I helped row a VW van from Spokane, Wa to the east coast back in the 60s. Head wind? Drop a gear and still keep it floored.
Harry K
Global Warming?
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That last bit is so, so true. I helped row a VW van from Spokane, Wa to the east coast back in the 60s. Head wind? Drop a gear and still keep it floored.
Harry K
Egon
Epic Contributor
patrick_g
Elite Member
Back in the 60's I often used an inverted bicycle to explain one of my concerns for the ecosystem that sustains life as we know it on our planet. Turn a bike over and crank a pedal like crazy getting the back wheel going really fast and then stop cranking. With no more input the wheel will eventually stop. The system was dead and/or doomed to death when cranking stopped. It was inevitable that the wheel would eventually coast to a stop depending on inertia, bearing attributes, lubrication etc. The wheel will stop with insufficient input.
Man finally developed the means to kill off all (intelligent or otherwise)life on the planet through nuclear bombs, pollution, reduction in arable land area, poisoning the air, water (biosphere in general) destruction of the forests introduction of exotic species where they can wreck havoc on native species upsetting many chains of life (Including food.)
View the earth and its ecosystems as the spinning bicycle wheel, perhaps dead but not coasted to a stop yet. Have we killed our biosphere or sickened it beyond recovery by any means available or just headed in that direction? We don稚 really know! We have never been this way before so there is no historical precedent and man, in general, has a very hard time figuring things out for the first time.
Plenty of people have a hard time learning from their mistakes. More people have a hard time learning from the mistakes of others and precious few figure things out in advance for the first time with no direct previous experience. We have never killed a planet before so we have little direct experience to draw from. I would recommend caution lest we get too close to a slippery slope we can't back up on and slip to our destruction however hard we try to make amends too little too late.
We have the ability to poison ourselves and our planet to death. Have we already done so with the planet inevitably dying irrespective of do gooder efforts? We don't know. By acting promptly and committing appropriate resources could we make a difference or is it too late already? Again, we don't know. Maybe the planet is still inside �he envelope where it can sustain if we don't let things get too far out of balance. Again, we just don't know. The prophets of doom don't know and those whistling in the dark business as usual everything is OK crowd also do not know.
Since we really don't know where we are with respect to the point of no return, you'd hope that prudent persons would encourage a careful analysis of the situation rather than denying the possibility that it is possible for humankind to bring about their own destruction.
Rather than argue about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin, lets use a microscope and count the buggers. We really don't know where we are along the continuum of self destruction but it seems prudent folks would want to know so as to make rational decisions of what to do if anything rather than just wrap oneself in a protective cloak of ignorant denial.
There is a surplus of vocal fanatics manning the battlements at both extremes of the argument, doing harm through engendering confusion through contradiction and naysaying. One is reminded of the war of the Lilliputians which started with tis, taint, tis taint, tis taint over which end of the boiled egg should be cracked open to spoon out the contents at breakfast.
Science can be complicated and difficult for the well intentioned but ill prepared lay persons to grasp. Nevertheless we need for everyone to try to support scientific efforts to find the truth of the matter in this grave area and be prepared to make amends or take corrective action as answers are found... if change is needed. Making this important debate/inquiry into a religious war where true believers of any stripe, unchecked by knowledge, accept a dogma on faith and cleave to it with maniacal ferocity out of proportion to the strength of their understanding is counterproductive in the extreme.
Blind loyalty to your side with concomitant denial of any information to the contrary and promulgation of this ignorant faith based foolishness serves no good cause. There are insufficient facts to justify many of the absolutist positions being taken. There is altogether too much don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up at both extremes of the spectrum.
I hope to have offended extremists of both ends of the continuum equally. If anyone feels shorted, please PM me with details and I shall endeavor to bring your offense quota up to par with the others.
Pat
Man finally developed the means to kill off all (intelligent or otherwise)life on the planet through nuclear bombs, pollution, reduction in arable land area, poisoning the air, water (biosphere in general) destruction of the forests introduction of exotic species where they can wreck havoc on native species upsetting many chains of life (Including food.)
View the earth and its ecosystems as the spinning bicycle wheel, perhaps dead but not coasted to a stop yet. Have we killed our biosphere or sickened it beyond recovery by any means available or just headed in that direction? We don稚 really know! We have never been this way before so there is no historical precedent and man, in general, has a very hard time figuring things out for the first time.
Plenty of people have a hard time learning from their mistakes. More people have a hard time learning from the mistakes of others and precious few figure things out in advance for the first time with no direct previous experience. We have never killed a planet before so we have little direct experience to draw from. I would recommend caution lest we get too close to a slippery slope we can't back up on and slip to our destruction however hard we try to make amends too little too late.
We have the ability to poison ourselves and our planet to death. Have we already done so with the planet inevitably dying irrespective of do gooder efforts? We don't know. By acting promptly and committing appropriate resources could we make a difference or is it too late already? Again, we don't know. Maybe the planet is still inside �he envelope where it can sustain if we don't let things get too far out of balance. Again, we just don't know. The prophets of doom don't know and those whistling in the dark business as usual everything is OK crowd also do not know.
Since we really don't know where we are with respect to the point of no return, you'd hope that prudent persons would encourage a careful analysis of the situation rather than denying the possibility that it is possible for humankind to bring about their own destruction.
Rather than argue about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin, lets use a microscope and count the buggers. We really don't know where we are along the continuum of self destruction but it seems prudent folks would want to know so as to make rational decisions of what to do if anything rather than just wrap oneself in a protective cloak of ignorant denial.
There is a surplus of vocal fanatics manning the battlements at both extremes of the argument, doing harm through engendering confusion through contradiction and naysaying. One is reminded of the war of the Lilliputians which started with tis, taint, tis taint, tis taint over which end of the boiled egg should be cracked open to spoon out the contents at breakfast.
Science can be complicated and difficult for the well intentioned but ill prepared lay persons to grasp. Nevertheless we need for everyone to try to support scientific efforts to find the truth of the matter in this grave area and be prepared to make amends or take corrective action as answers are found... if change is needed. Making this important debate/inquiry into a religious war where true believers of any stripe, unchecked by knowledge, accept a dogma on faith and cleave to it with maniacal ferocity out of proportion to the strength of their understanding is counterproductive in the extreme.
Blind loyalty to your side with concomitant denial of any information to the contrary and promulgation of this ignorant faith based foolishness serves no good cause. There are insufficient facts to justify many of the absolutist positions being taken. There is altogether too much don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up at both extremes of the spectrum.
I hope to have offended extremists of both ends of the continuum equally. If anyone feels shorted, please PM me with details and I shall endeavor to bring your offense quota up to par with the others.
Pat
duke7595
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I do not, and will not believe in global warming,
It is another government sponsored PLOY MADE TO SCARE THE POPULATION
and of course we have the good ole boys (some politicians) that have been using this same platform for years to get ELECTED.
The sad thing is a lot of folks believe this crap.
Sincerely, Duke
It is another government sponsored PLOY MADE TO SCARE THE POPULATION
and of course we have the good ole boys (some politicians) that have been using this same platform for years to get ELECTED.
The sad thing is a lot of folks believe this crap.
Sincerely, Duke
patrick_g
Elite Member
Good read Pat:thumbsup:. What a waste tho.
....larry
You mean like shiny round pieces of nacre in front of pigs? :laughing::laughing::laughing:
DABSGT
Veteran Member
Warmer is better! With the white house cheering the high gas and oil price global warming is a blessing. Just filled the oil tank $980.00 for 5 weeks.
rsewill
Veteran Member
duke7595 said:
That's what this issue needs, more open minds.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Shrinking Sky! Cloud Tops Dropping Closer to Earth, NASA Satellite Finds | Atmospheric Science & Climate Change | Cloud Formation & Height | LiveScience
If NASA says so, then it must be true. Sadly, all they can say about it is they don't know what's causing it or what it means. All we know is that in the past ten years, the clouds are lower.
Sounds like another good examply of nothingness.
Eddie
mostly_gas
Super Member
There is a reason that some of us don't buy everything that the scientist tell us. They don't know everything especially in new disciplines. They can make mistakes as well, such as when I was in high school I was told that it took 53 million years to form the petrified forest in Yellowstone Park. Now there is strong evidence that it is closer to hundreds of years not millions of years to form. And then the ignoring of the alarmist such as Prof. Mann. Sort of like Author Anderson as an accountant 
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