GM oil engineers oil test cc: Mike

Henro · Apr 18, 2005

Thanks Mike,

That made it easy! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

KAB · Apr 18, 2005

I try to stay out of "Hot Issues", but had to make a comment for this one.

First here is the link that I found Bob Is The Oil Guy

Second - Disclaimer - I do not work for GM but both my wife's and my income depend on GM.

Third - After reading both sets of links, both people (looks like the same person) make some facts and unbacked statements.

GM's oil life system for the most part is based on dino oils not syn. It bases for determining oil life is based off of a number of factors that most simply listed as Time, RPM, Temperature (internal and external), and which engine. From all of the feedback, and test that I have heard about, it works quite well. These poster claim that GM recommends an oil change at about 1/2 of the oils full useful life whereas I hear that GM allows a large margin of error.

From there these posters have only stated what they believe no facts to back it ether way. The link that Mike posted to the poster states that the only advantge to syn oil is the higher temp rating of the oil quite a few times then starts to change his story a few post in. But reading between the lines I do get the feeling that this person is pushing GM's Oil Life Monitor (which I used until I switched to syn.)

Either way, I feel (from all that I have read and personal use) that syn. oil is a much better oil than dino. It also looks like not all oil is created equal dino or syn. One thing that cannot be disputed is that the oil of today is not the oil of 10, 20, 30, or more years ago. (as well as engines)

From what I have seen on API SM it has made major improvements over the SL rated oil and any newer engine should not have a problem of 5,000+ miles (most current auto manf. recommend oil changes starting at 5,000m) unless servere duty and maybe even then. It also looks like the bigger key to longer oil life is a better filtration system. (The link that Mike posted indicated this when it come to large diesel engines. Then talks about high filtration not being necessary, guess he can't decide)

(A little off subject. In Mike's link the guy is asked about octane level. I one of my meetings with GM there was an engine guy there who did not recommend any octane higher than what is recommened as with current knock sensors are tuned for that grade of fuel. GM and 3 other manf's (Toyota, Honda and BMW) recommend when possible to use a "Top Tier Fuel" Retailers for best performance and emission ratings.)

I guess in a summary of this, do as you please, if you do not agree with is being said either state you opinion and leave it at that, or state your opinion with proveable facts to back it and then start a valid debate. I for one appreciate Mike's input here since he seems to be the only one with facts. I would also appreciate if there was somebody here (as I am not an oil expert) that could offer a valid other side to this debate since all I can seem to find anywhere on the net is how good (with facts) that syn is and others saying that syn is not necessary, current dino oil is the only way to go, change your oil 3,000 miles, and not back it up with anything other than I have done it this way for a long time without a problem. Which is fine, but I for one would rather keep the money in my pocket over the oil companies and oil producers.

Can anybody give me proven facts that I cannot either use dino oil longer than 3,000mile (or use the GM oil life system), or where syn does not last for 15,000 - 25,000 miles (for the companies that make these claims).

Sorry about this rant, but in my job I deal with the GM Oil Life Monitor and deal with these type of issues all of the time (on a non-technical basis) so hearing it here gets a little frustrating. All I want is FACTS.

Kurt

Edit: Some of this might have come out wrong, but with the way things go with Amsoil on this site and posting right after reading the links, please read this as intended and not as a slam to anyone or any post (past, current or future). Thanks

teddydo · Apr 18, 2005

Henro, sorry I didn't paste the exact thing I work in a hurry. Mike I confess and I'll bet others are the same on this issue that I simply do not understand the result on these oil test that are posted. I wish I did. I have stated before that I use Red Line oil these days because it's a grade 5 oil and I feel better that way. I run a mail route with my Toyota 4 cylinder and I want it to last and stay clean inside. I live in Mississippi and it get hot in the summers here so I feel protected. I change on 15K with a filter change in between, no problems but no oil test. Thanks for all the info........teddy

gsxr1100 · Apr 19, 2005

Kab- You can use dino longer then 3K miles. It should last at the very least what is stated in the manual. Coming from the design environment, I would say it should be able to go longer, in general. But it depends on the oil being used. That I feel is why the manufactures give a low drain (not 3K though). They do not know if you are using the cheapest stuff on the planet or the best.

I have never tried to go very long (over 7,500 miles) with dino as an example since in my last car (Toyota) the dipstick was varnished pretty bad using Toyota oil (Mobil drive clean). The little 4 banger got very hot and the dipstick showed it.

I am not a chemical or auto engineer but so far in my world (personally or world) there is nothing dino.

So in the end select what oil you wish, but I would personly test it as certain intervals. To see the oil performance and and wear and tear on the engine. AS much as I like Amsoil there is no way I could go “up to 25K in my Lexus”. Based on oil tests, the oil will be depleted (in a safe zone) before that interval; like 7,000 before.

cp1969 · Apr 23, 2005

( Can anybody give me proven facts that I cannot either use dino oil longer than 3,000mile (or use the GM oil life system), or where syn does not last for 15,000 - 25,000 miles (for the companies that make these claims). )

Yes. Both of my daughters' cars specify 10K or 12 month oil change intervals. (Acura RSX, VW New Beetle)

In our big trucks, (3406 Cat, L10 Cummins) we ran the oil 15K. Cat had a chart whereby you could calculate the oil change interval based upon a few factors, the most important of which was make-up oil (the oil you add between changes). The interval could get VERY long if the engine used a lot of oil.

In my Dodge/Cummins, 15K is the light-duty interval; 7500 for severe duty. It doesn't take much, however, to be considered 'severe' duty. I have yet to qualify for the light-duty interval.

HuckBB62 · Apr 24, 2005

Jestel's no lube engineer. Much of what he says is clearly wrong at best and at least written in ignorance. My suggestion is listen to those that have the credentials, and the liberty of being unbiased. bobistheoilguy's website even goes lacking in some areas of expertise. noria.com is where the pros go, and I suggest you all go, for lubrication education.

gsxr1100 · Apr 24, 2005

yup, that is where I started to learn some other stuff about 6-months ago. Very indepth info.

Moon · Apr 28, 2005

( Mike I confess and I'll bet others are the same on this issue that I simply do not understand the result on these oil test that are posted. )

Hey Teddy,
Yep, I was in the same boat. Get an oil test done and it will help clear things up for you. It worked for me.
I too appreciate Mike's input on here. It is nice to see facts posted with opinions.

Moon of Ohio

teddydo · Apr 28, 2005

Moon thank you and I have booked marked a page to get the test done and it looked like they explained the results. Reason I lilke th e Red line is the way it cleans, a lot better than castrol in my opinion. Maybe an overkill who knows. Luck to you all and mike keep the techinal stuff coming...teddy

Moon · Apr 28, 2005

The report itself is well documented. They give an explanation of all the elements and results. I used Blackstone for my first one.
Redline is good stuff. I'm thinking of using it for my next oil change on our ZTR (27hp v-twin). Overkill, well maybe; but it isn't it a good feeling to baby your equiptment when you can?

Moon of Ohio