Goats

[BamaRob]

I posted this over on CountryByNet, but thought I'd post it here to get a wider audience. I apologize in advance if you frequent both places.

Any goat ranchers here? I'm thinking of pasturing a few goats next spring/summer. There's a patch of kudzu (~15 acres) on a hilltop on my dad's place that I'm considering doing this on. Here's my plan and questions. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm thinking of waiting until Jan/Feb when the above-ground kudzu is all dead. Burn the patch off, disc it up, and throw out some winter wheat/rye/oats to (hopefully) hold the soil until spring greenup. While it's clean, fence it in providing a tractor path on the outside of the fence to allow for spraying/mowing to keep the kudzu off the fence. Once things start to green up in mid to late March, put a few goats on it to keep the kudzu knocked down through the summer. Start selling the goats in late summer (Aug/Sept), eventually selling them all once the kudzu has died/dried up (after a couple of frosts in Nov). Then, in Feb/Mar overseed with pasture grass of some type. Once things start to green-up, put a few goats on it again and repeat the process. Eventually, I would hope to have pretty decent pasture with little/no kudzu that I can rotate goats on/off.

Problems/questions:

This area is on a hilltop with no permanent water. I've consdered using a back scoop on my tractor to dig out a shallow pond to catch rainwater. But, during the drier months it wouldn't be holding any water, I'm sure. How much water do goats require? Any suggestions on providing water on this spot?

How many goats per acre should I begin with? I have no clue how many head I can carry on this pasture.

We have coyotes around, so I've considered including a donkey with the herd for protection. Will the donkey do OK on kudzu pasture, or will I need to provide hay? For that matter, can goats do OK on just kudzu and what little other browse there will be, or will I need to provide hay for them?

Will the goats require any type of structure for shelter? There are no trees on this spot, just kudzu.

What kind of fencing/posts are recommended for goats?

What breed is recommended?

My dad and I have considered doing something like this for several years, we've just never "pulled the trigger" on this project. Does this sound like a workable project? How is the meat goat market? Will we be able to break even or clear a small profit doing this?

Thanks,

BR

 

[HRS]

Wow! You ask a lot of questions. Let me address the most important aspect/mistake I see you making if you attempt as stated. If you get into the goat business, plan on doing this year round. It takes some time to build a quality herd that is not sickly. Often, when you buy a new animal from a sale, you are forced to spend quite a bit on a vet, or medicine if you do it yourself. They will all come down with pinkeye and suffer from a host of other communicable diseases that they pick up when penned with others at these sales. It takes a while to clean them up so to speak. If you try trading your entire herd every year, you had better educate yourself on their medical needs. This you will have to do anyway. But it is not fun to have multiple animals suffering from the same ailment.
Now this is not even considering the fact that you will become attached to them, or at least some of them. Yes, they are goats, but like dogs, one or two will win you over. They will need shelter. They will need appropriate feed. They will probably help you out with your unwanted growth, but this will not be a hands off proposition. Like any livestock, they will require decent care.
Give it a try. But understand that you will very likely become far more involved than you now imagine.

 

[BamaRob]

Thanks, HRS.

I knew there were lots of things left out of my considerations. Vet bills and medical needs are things that I was aware of, but haven't given a whole lot of thought. My dad and I both currently work full time (40+ hrs/wk), but Dad is looking to retire soon. Perhaps we should wait another year or two until he retires before jumping into this.

What I may do in the meantime is get a goat or two and put them on a small (~2 ac) wooded pasture adjacent to my lawn. This would give me an opportunity to get familiar with the animals (their personality, care requirements, etc.) and see if managing a full herd is something I think I'd enjoy.

Thanks again for the input. I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to respond.

BR

 

[EddieWalker]

I was thinking along the same lines as you are with goats. Natures weed eaters. Clear off the underbrush and maybe make a buck off of them in the end.

Everyone I talked to told me that goats are escape artists. They are very smart, and very agile in getting out from fencing. You really gotta put up a high quality fence designed for goats.

Llamas seem like a better choice for a guard animal over donkeys from what I've read also. I've got no personal experience on either, but if you search through the threads here you'll see what I mean. The donkeys are just as likely to cause more problems than they solve. A good one is priceless, but the odds of a bad one are just as likely.

Water was an issue you mentioned. No way I'd consider raising any livestock without a permenant, year round source of clean drinking water. You might be able to get by on native plants for food, but no way to do the same off rain water in a shallow pit or small pond.

I've also been told that goats are herd animals and like to have lots of other goats around to keep them company. If you only have a few goats, they might be more likely to wonder off looking for friends. Not sure what the right number is for this, but just wanted to through it out there.

The edges of a pond are a huge source for bacteria and desease. I'm slowly fencing in a few acres myself and have a 3/4 acre pond in there. I'm running a one inch water line for the animals so they will have a source of clean water. I'm not sure if they will stay out of the pond and mud or not, but at least I'll have the water available.

Have you considered leasing out the land to somebody with a goat herd? Some cities are bringing in goat heards for cleaing off hillsides in fire prone areas to clear the underbrush. Oakland CA and the surrounding cities do this because of the fire storm back in 1989.

Currently I'm thinking of just putting a few llamas and longhorns in my pasture. It's easier to bushhog the field and not rely on unpredictable goats to do it for me.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Cityboyfarmer]

Talk to your county extension agent, assuming Alabama is structured that way. Here in Georgia, our counties have and extension agent of the University of Georgia and he or she can answer just about any livestock or farming question you have. That is where I get my soil samples done too. I am looking into getting a small goat herd to control the woody plants in areas I’m not ready to plant pasture in yet. My county extension agent told me that Boer goats are a good hardy breed for this area and a herd of about 10 with one Billy is a good size to start with, depending on the acreage. The goats will do well with the kudzu. I was told that goats need woody browse to remain healthy and that they do not do well on grass alone, and they will need hay and feed for winter subsistence. My extension agent also said that a Jenny donkey is better for predator protection than a Jack donkey because the Jacks can be aggressive with your Billy.

Anyway, check with your Alabama or Auburn University extension agent or agriculture person and you will get accurate information for what kind of livestock you want to raise in your area.

 

[HRS]

Rob, one other thing, make sure you have a very good pen to keep predators out. The donkey, etc. might be something to investigate. Your worst predator will be your neighbors' dogs. We had a few herds wiped out back when I was helping my dad out on the farm. Sixteen were killed at one time. If they get in the pasture, they just kill to be killing. Unlike a coyote that might make off with a young one for food. I have a sister who has a nice little place and still works a few goats for fun. She spent a few $ and had her few acres fenced in chain link. This is probably the best deterrent I've ever seen. Also has a few dogs she raised that help keep an eye on everything.

After this, you will need to keep their shelter clean. If their manure builds up, they will contract intestinal parasites. What a mess this makes of things and very difficult to cure.

Starting with a few sounds like a good idea. We got our start many years ago because my dad was suffering from stomach ulcers at the time. He heard that goat milk might help, so we built a tight pen with tall dog wire. For starters we would stake the few goats out on a collar and chain during a portion of the day. What a hoot. Often, one would break loose and destroy several of the fruit trees we had planted near by.

As far as trees are concerned, they will kill every tree you have in or around your pasture if the trees/bushes are few in number. Even 20 plus year old pines are no match. I had to fence off a strip of land once that held about 50 mature pines to keep the goats from killing them. They will eat the bark off anywhere they can reach. Finally, we placed them in a pasture that had probably 4 acres of woods attached to it. They really didn't do any damage there, plenty of young woody stuff constantly growing to keep up with their demand. But this wooded area was a bottom area with plenty of springheads. Young foliage grew there in abundance. I'm not sure how it would have faired if this wooded area had been high and dry. There would have at least been a browse line for certain. Now my sister I mentioned had the loader operators leave 15 or so cedars in and around her pastures when she first bought her place. Needless to say she now has pastures with a few dead trunks dotting the landscape.

 

[1bush2hog]

I have been investigating using goats to browse some of the areas on my property as well. One of my neighbors raises goats and he told me there are certain trees that are not beneficial to goats - wild cherry and red maple are two and there maybe others depending on your local. Onc e the goats browse all of the stuff they can reach, he comes in and saws down the trees he doesn't want to keep and the goats then have more food to eat, and only leave behind a trunk that can then easily be disposed of depending on how large the tree is.

He also told me that he liked using portable electric fencing. That way he can move the entire pen once an area is cleaned by the goats.

He also uses Kangal dogs to protect his herd, raising both dogs and goats to sell, and goats to eat.

I'm trying to work out a deal with him to put his goats on my property for awhile, especially, since I do not live on this property and can not watch my own goats on a full time basis.

 

[BamaRob]

HRS,

Thanks again for the valuable input. Your mention of "staking" goats on a chain reminded me of a buddy of mine back in highschool. His dad kept a billy staked around the edge of the yard to keep the honeysuckle and briars in check. My buddy used to put on a motorcycle helmet and butt heads with the billy. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Luckily, he wasn't seriously injured, but he did realize that a human's head/neck isn't designed like a billy's!

BR

 

[BamaRob]

1bush2hog,

I wish I had a neighbor that raised goats! We did have a neighbor pasture his cows on the kudzu a few years ago. They did a good job of knocking it back in just two years. Unfortunately, he sold all of his cows, and the kudzu came back with a vengence!

Thanks,

BR

 

[Panache]

Cows will take kudzu down but it will take several years. I am considering the same thing. What I have read goats are browsers not grazers. They prefer brush rather than grass. If they are allowed to browse they are relatively worm free. They get worms from having to graze. I seem to remember it was like 2 gallons a day per goat. They also need somewhere to get out of the weather. Rotating goats with horses of cows stops the worm problem. Using sheep with goats does not break the worm cycle. Where in Al are you?