Turn him in to the Feds? It's not a crime to fabricate something and call it a ROPS; what on earth makes you think it is? Your post is, as many others, full of misinformation. First, ebay does not constitute a "commercial sale" as you put it, and secondly there is no law such as you reference. ROPS have never been an issue of law, but rather of regulation (and of course personal safety), by OSHA, and even then only required on machines used by EMPLOYEES of a business owning the machine. Why on earth should we spend $10,000 (the average cost of developing ONE ROPS model) to test someone else's knock-off? Recognition of engineering standards outside the US...of course there is....like for the buildings in Haiti that collapsed like paper-mache, or countless other examples of standards held in other places outside the US.
I'm sure it will make little difference to many current forum visitors, and some will probably be elated...I am erasing this bookmark from my browser and will never again visit this forum. In the early days there were owners eager to learn and respectful of the experience of those of us who were literally trailblazers in this market. Far too often anymore I have to read sarcastic responses to my posts, posts which almost always simply present information that is often counter to the old-wives tales that too often end up posted here anymore. In this thread the first response doesn't even contain information, it is nothing more than a sarcastic comment on my post, and the second suggests we take on responsibility for someone else's product. Not likely. For any here who have done parts business with us, feel free to continue to contact us through normal channels. Our tractor customers know they always have our ear, which is why you very seldom read one of our customers post here. I want no more of the new tone of this forum over the past couple years, where an arrogant individuals brief experience with one tractor trumps years of experience with hundreds of tractors.
This will also provide an excellent opportunity for the small number of you who are absolutely nothing more than sarcasm factories to extol the wonderfulness of my absence. Enjoy.
You want to talk about misinformation? Show me where I "referenced law" anywhere in my post. You might also want to pay particular attention to the first two sentences, it's clear I said I was "under the impression" ROPS had to be certified and then went on to ask if this was correct. It is obvious I am opening the door for clarification on this. They apparently do not (?), with the exception of OSHA pertaining to the use of machines by employees which I pointed out and you were good enough to reiterate as if I was incorrect ( not sure what your point was there but thank you). Can OSHA come in and levy a fine or shut down your business for not complying with their regulations? Yes. You pointed out ROPS are regulated, not covered by law. What is a regulation?
1. The act of regulating or the state of being regulated.
2. A principle, rule, or law designed to control or govern conduct.
3. A governmental order having the force of law. Also called executive order
Did I say law? No. You mentioned it (why I'm still not sure) and regulation can also mean law by the definition. Does it apply here? I don't know and never said it did but may be something to consider after all.
I was intrigued why you would say that selling these ROPS on ebay is not a commercial sale? So I spent some time examining this term. Yes, it is often used in expressing national trade. It is also used in referring to trade across the country or trade across state lines or simply trade requiring transport or often simply trade for profit, any of these by a group, business or individual. Explain to me how a business selling an item labeled as a ROPS, manufactured for a specific use and obviously being sold for profit is not a commercial sale, just because it's on ebay. It is evident that even a private individual doing the same thing, because it is for profit is considered a commercial sale and dare I say it...has the same associated liabilities. If it makes you feel more comfortable, lets call it a retail sale. Probably more appropriate by definition but then again, I don't know how many of these are manufactured and sold or where they are sold and where the finite line between the two terms lie. Do you?
""Turn him in to the Feds? It's not a crime to fabricate something and call it a ROPS; what on earth makes you think it is?"" (Maybe not criminally but tell that to a civil attorney if the ROPS that were sold were to fail.) ""...the second suggests we take on responsibility for someone else's product..."". I had to chuckle when I read this. I really like how you act like it was intended to be taken literally, then you went into detail about the obvious sarcasm in this post. Which argument do you want to make? That I'm an idiot and meant that literally or you are the innocent victim who never talks harshly on the site and is totally undeserving of the obvious sarcasm of those statements you were referring to?
Frankly, I got tired off reading the harsh comments and sarcasm you spit at people with good intentions on the forum. I have actually talked to you on the phone before and received good service and consider you a fine dealer. You can't expect everyone here to be an expert on grey market tractors and if they post something here that is incorrect it's not very often their intention to continue the telling of a "old wives tale" or purposely to give someone wrong information....it's almost always an honest mistake backed by good intentions and I don't feel it gives you license to drop kick them in the chops. If you think it does then expect some of it back.
The bottom line is this, my point was clear that if the ROPS posted is relatively inexpensive or has no OSHA certification it does not mean that it was not certified at all. It also doesn't mean that if certified by a body other than OSHA it is inherently unreliable. Your stance on the subject was that when California said he had bought something from the ROPS seller that was a "good deal", your response was that someone that was killed by a bad ROPS probably thought they were getting a "good deal too. What conclusion are we to draw from that? Come on now, do you really think that's fair? I know it wasn't fair that I just assumed you were taking your position because it was a VN tractor dealer and apologize for that. It is not my wish that you leave this forum and I regret that my post was the straw that broke the camels back. At the same time I find it somewhat ironic that someone that is so quick to chastise others turns out to be so sensitive to being treated in a similar manner as he has often treated others. If you want to take your toys and go home I guess that's your choice, I would prefer you stay.
not due to bad service (he's a top notch straight shooter) but due to market sales volume.. retirement's closer with each season.
![DSC01412[1].jpg](/forums/data/attachments/155/155315-ba9ce60048b4f7d357bd3ea37565903c.jpg)
