Good Doer goes to jail

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   / Good Doer goes to jail #11  

riptides

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Yet another way to look at this story, is the authorities sending a message to the public at large. Do not assist us in rescue efforts, we will arrest you.
OK, now I see what happened to this person, maybe it *might* deter someone else, less qualified to assist. it may save their life.

There was a story a few days ago, of would be rescuers jumping in trying to save someone from riptides. I think two people died trying to save someone. Rescuers were on the scene.

It is a tough call. We were not there, so I am taking it with lots of salt.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Soundguy

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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There was a story a few days ago, of would be rescuers jumping in trying to save someone from riptides. I think two people died trying to save someone. Rescuers were on the scene.

It is a tough call. We were not there, so I am taking it with lots of salt.
)</font>

As you say.. we weren't there to see the details. The story in my local paper makes it sound like there were police on scene.. but no 'rescuers' on scene to help the person.

Considering you can drown and be past recusitating in what? 5 minutes.. I'd guess some brave soul jumpin in to save you NOW as oposed to waiting for the sherifs or fire dept dive team to show up (when? 10 minutes if you are lucky? ) later is going to be a different subject if you are the person drowning.

Again.. all we are seeing is news reports.. but it all the world 'so far' looks like a black mark on the police force and lots of negative pr. IMHO..I would think it would be in the best interest of the DA or the court of jurisdiction to decline pressing charges or drop the case.. due to the public opinion on the matter.

OTOH.. if he's judged by his peers.. looks like he won't have a problem? eh.

Soundguy
 
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riptides

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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( OTOH.. if he's judged by his peers.. looks like he won't have a problem? eh. )</font>

The person is a hero to me. All the rest is noise and I hope it works out for *all* parties involved.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Good Doer goes to jail #14  

tawilson

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I keep wanting to say "do gooder", instead of "good doer", but that's not important now.
 
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deere755

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I guess as a fireman and being on the rescue squad for 19 years I would not recommend anyone to trade their life for another. My first fire chief told me we don't trade our life for theirs so in other words if we know going in we won't come out we don't go in. Sounds bad but nothing is gained by losing 2 lives. On the other hand if this man was willing to do this knowing the risk involved I don't think we should persecute him for it. A fellow fireman and myself pulled a man out of an over turned tanker several years ago and later the fireman that helped me became ill from the fumes of the chemical that was in the tanker. We were both green at being on the dept. and the trucks hadn't arrived yet. After finding out what was in the tanker we learned we were supposed to be no closer than a half a mile away because of the fumes involved and the danger of explosion. The man lived because of what we did and I'm glad that we did what we did, but knowing what I know now I wouldn't have done it.
 
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hobbyfarm

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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I keep wanting to say "do gooder", instead of "good doer", but that's not important now. )</font>

tawilson,
Of course you know the difference, don't you?

<font color="green">"Good Doer"</font> - the poor cat that that ended up arrested. He was a "Doer", he wasn't content to sit by and let someone drown.
<font color="red">"Do Gooder"</font> - the idiot in uniform who had to arrest someone to get spotlight off his doing nothing. Sort of CYA. That way he has something to write in his report. See, after bellowing orders to a civilian, he had to save face, no turning back. Of course, at the donut happy hour, all his buddies will razz him for that too.

"If you're not making waves, you ain't paddling" Ted Nugent
 
   / Good Doer goes to jail #17  

daedong

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These issues bug me, while I know service departments have an important role in society they have wiped out instinctive human behaviour, we might as well become robots with calculators
 
   / Good Doer goes to jail #18  

Soundguy

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At least for self defense matters.. it's already been proven that police have no liability for -not- protecting you.. that's why self defense is so important. ( You can't sue the police for -Not showing up/up in time- to prevent a crime.. they have 0 responsibility to actually protect you.. just there to prevent/stop crime.

I'd say that 'thinking' carries on to other maters of danger as well. If I'm in a bad situation, I'd better be good at getting myself out of it.. or hope that someone will help me.

At least here in florida.. 'first responders' * save the day many times. It's very common to come up on the scene of a wreck out in the middle of no where, and see a truck driver has pulled over used his rig to block the lane of the bad accident to shield the injuried people laying on the ground.. then start directing traffic while a nurse onthe way to work pulls over and starts triage.. Next to show up usually around here is fire rescue.. who pretty much immediatly go to triage/treating people. Last to show up 99.99999% o fthe time is police.

I've seen cases where police showed up before EMS, and in most of those cases, the officer starts helping the victoms and leaves the civilian directing traffic, as long as he's doing a good job of it. That's how it should be.. people helping people. whether you know them or not.

* I break down first responders into 2 classes untrained civilians ( first to show up on scene ) and trained civilians or 'official' personel. Official personel are the ems/firemen/police, etc. trained civilians are the medical personel who must stop if they see an accident, voulenteer police ( parade duty.. special officers), and citizens who have taken our local sheriffs dept citizen patrol course... You actually get training as a first responder... cpr... an id card.. etc. kind of like voluenteer disaster prep crews..e tc ).

Oh yeah.. got off on a tangent.. my point?

Yes we are a nation of laws.. have to keep it that way to maintain order. That said.. whenever a situation just doesn't
fit due to mitigating circumstances... someone needs to step up and make it right. In a case where the end result was a life saved, at the 'violation' of police orders, you need to look at the end result and intention.. the human life was 10000000000000000000000% more important than the police orders ( in that case ) and some DA or judge or politician needs to step up.. check his cajhones and come to bat for the guy that made the rescue.
Laws without exception lead to a nation that becomes stale, rigid and cold. Now a healthy growing one.

Soundguy
 
   / Good Doer goes to jail #20  

MossRoad

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The guy is quoted as saying "I had a very uncomfortable night after saving that guy’s life."

That statement, right there, shows me the character of the guy.

I was a lifeguard at pools and beaches for serveral years and spent a couple years lifeguarding at the first artificial whitewater course in the U.S. here in South Bend, IN. I get asked by people all the time if I ever saved anybody's life, especially by my children. I always respond with the truth... I don't know. I really do not know if the person would have certainly died had I not pulled them out of the water when I did. Someone else might have helped them, they might have found firm footing, a wave might have pushed them onto a sand bar or a giant catfish might swallow them and spit them out on shore.

You know when you lose somebody. That's a fact. However, you never know if you actually saved somebody and claiming that you did reveals your character.

As for water rescues... poor planning and inadequate backup plans have led to the deaths of many a rescuer. The first thing they teach you is to always know your limits. I've let several big men flounder in the water until I knew they were tired enough that I could physically handle them. Drowning folks do not cooperate with rescue people. They panic. They grab you and try to climb up you to get out of the water, which, of course, pushes you under. Then you die. Unless you are trained properly in physical techniques and mental preparedness, chances are pretty good that you're gonna die, the drowning person will tire out and be saved by others and you will be pulled from the water several hours later by a search team.

I haven't lifeguarded in 15 years or so. My physical strength is no longer up to par to attempt to pull someone from moving water. I know this because I get winded playing with my kids in a three foot deep backyard pool. I eat lunch by the river several days a week and frequently watch the white water rescue school train law enforcement officers and rescue personell from all over the world on both the river and the man-made course. They do this several times a year and keep current on their training. The rescue staff at the man-made course practice often just to keep up their skills.

Today, if I saw someone fall in the river, I would have my doubts about going after them. Instead, I would contact authorities, shout instructions to the victim and wait to see if an opportunity arrises to perform a resue within my personal limits before capable rescuers arrived. I know when I will be useless to the victim and there is no point in adding to the problem.

Should the guy have gotten a ticket? Once he "saved" the guy, he should have gotten out of the water and stayed with the victim. Instead, he chose to swim back across the river. Yes, he should have gotten a ticket.
 
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