Good Help (So Hard to Find)

   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #71  
We each have to find our own path in life. Of course I've told all my kids from the day they were born that they're moving out at 18 so they'd better be ready. :)7

I am 19 and still living at home. I also do half the work around the house and "farm" so I don't think anyone is in any hurry to kick me out. I am not in any hurry to move on but I have been thinking about it.
Tucker
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #72  
My biggest competition is the US Government.

I offered several people jobs and they said NOPE, they would rather collect free money from the Government than work for it. YA ME TOO, but if we all took that attitude we would become cave men all over again.

They all figure the difference between working for a pay check and doing nothing is not worth it.

trying offering a livable wage and the quality of talent will usually show up. Free money from the government doesnt last forever...it doesn't work that way unless you are disabled.
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #73  
Baggage. All help has baggage that has to be understood and either accommodated, compensated for, ignored, endured, or fired.

Farm/ranch work is inherently complex, dangerous, and outside the experience of most workers unless they have lots of rural experience.

Yep, ideally you could hire someone and immediately turn them loose by themselves with equipment and the job would get done just as if you did it yourself.

Can't do it... gotta work at their side, supervise, emphasize safety, teach and educate.... then let them gradually become independent works when you are convinced they are sufficiently capable of the particular task.

I've been around such employees since I was in high school, hired by relatives or myself. Problem is neither new nor unique to a particular area.

Problem (and reality) is that physical laborers/farm workers are VERY often in that state because:


  1. they are not mental giants... often below average IQ, thus do not learn as quickly or remember as long as others do. One fellow had to be retrained on a manual repetitive task every morning and after the noon break.
  2. have a substance abuse problem..alcohol or drugs...this can make them unsafe operators or unreliable in various ways. One fellow got drunk and assaulted a family member.
  3. are mentally ill....bipolar and other illnesses exhibit themselves often in poor judgment, impulsive actions, etc. I cannot tell you how many times I've thought "now why did they do it that way...anybody should have known not to drive equipment there/take safety precautions, that was an idiotic thing to do.
  4. are untrained, never having done the task or operated the equipment before. This is a dangerous combination, particularly when combined with time pressure and exhaustion.
  5. Have baggage themselves that causes problems....that is, one person may be OK, but the spouse is not. A wife may be a fine housekeeper and cook, but the husband an unreliable, incapable neer-do-well.
  6. There may be a language barrier..either documented or undocumented aliens..preventing good communications. I speak Spanish...this helps.
  7. are from a completely different socioeconomic life experience...thus their approach to doing things is completely unrealistic in the context of the current task. I've had a fellow continue to use a completely blunt hacksaw blade because he had always had to use what was in his hand....never been anywhere where replacement parts such as a hacksaw blade were available.
I could go on and on..... the original question was...is this a common problem...

The quick answer is...very clearly yes....it not only goes with the territory, it IS the territory, part of the human experience... we are not all the same...dull world if we were:D

The only solution is to very carefully interview and research the experience of new hires and work with them initially, maybe always. Also, sadly, you can either pay low wages and pay for what they break/lose/destroy, etc. Or, you can pay better and have a chance of hiring someone with more native resources, skill and expertise for the tasks at hand and hope this is less than paying for accidents and inexperience.

In the end, when you hire someone, you are their manager and management tasks are completely distinct from farm/ranch operational tasks.

The above said, there have been numerous people who have worked for my relatives and myself, for years. So, there DO exist good, capable, reliable, honest, good hearted people who will work on farms and ranches, but it takes lots of culling to find them.

A ranch/farm game, properly realistic, would be more complex than any game to date.

Weather, tractors, terrain, hp, equipment, fuel, different soil types, different animals/behavior, fencing, time management, budgets, farm programs, commodity prices, lubricants, the entire panoply of TBN topics could be covered. I can't wait....

Best post in this thread
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #74  
What is fair pay - would does a worker need in order to meet their needs - food, shelter, transportation, health insurance etc? $15 per hour is just over $30000/year - health insurance is $6000/ year - $12-15000 for a family.

Loren
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #75  
As I read this forum post I had one thought. What about the people who are so unmodivated to not even apply for the job you are offering. You are getting people who are slightly modivated to earn money. Your missing out on a whole other group of people who have zero modivation and zero sense of reality. The internet/games/etc are no substitute for actually living, and doing things.
While yes i play online games, its at night to wind down, after i have split wood, cut trees, mowed fields, worked in the garden, hiked with my daughter, or built a stone wall, or gone rock climbing.
Just think, just think for what a day in the life of a teacher is like. They have all the students not just the ones who want to work.
In one of the posts someone said something about not doing things for their kids....its true. If you are always doing something for your child they will never do it. My daughter is two, she loves to draw. If i dont let her draw and take the pen and do it for her she will expect me to do it for the rest of her life. sometimes letting them fail is part of the learning process, it comes with having patience. then again when its your business and them failing is going to cost you money patience leaves the building.
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #76  
What is fair pay - would does a worker need in order to meet their needs - food, shelter, transportation, health insurance etc? $15 per hour is just over $30000/year - health insurance is $6000/ year - $12-15000 for a family.

Loren

You don't need any health insurance. It's easy to save up $15,000 cash for a broken leg. That'll leave you $15000 in a year for your family to live on. Plenty of money to live on. :p
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #77  
We had a fellow a couple of years ago. Seemed like a very interested and motivated guy. But then working on a farm must be better then sitting in jail.
The guy was first off rock stupid and a liar. Told us he was in the klink for drunk driving. Turns out he was there for bail jumping. Said he never stole anything. Found out he spent time courtesy of the state, for theft. Pay the guy and he started hiding money around the place. WTH is all that about? Constantly was on his stupid phone texting his equally stupid and pregnant girlfriend. Incredible isn't it? He knew how to do that. Tell him that be should not climb ladders. Guess what?
I got tired of baby sitting this guy. All damned day all he would talk about was how his lawyer was going to get a big settlement from a previous employer. We called the county jail one day and told the sheriff that they could keep Bob as long as they wanted. We had it with him.
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #78  
What is fair pay - would does a worker need in order to meet their needs - food, shelter, transportation, health insurance etc? $15 per hour is just over $30000/year - health insurance is $6000/ year - $12-15000 for a family.

Loren

Well guys I'll put it to ya' like this. Right now I'm in Sparta, NC helping a good friend of mine out while I'm on my 2 week vacation.:D (Yep, I'm working during a vacation, sounds like an oxymoron don't it? :laughing:

Anyway, when I told him I'd help him out,he asked me what I normally made as far as wages. Now I make commission for the work I do and I usually average between $25 to $50 an hour depending on the hours I go out. (service work) My average's usually 'round $36 an hour, so that's what I told him :eek:. Poor guy 'bout had a heart attack!:laughing: After asking me if he could come work for me :D, he said there was no way he could pay me anything close to that. I said,"Dan, how 'bout $10 an hour and let me eat supper at your house each night?" (His wife's an excellent cook!) He said "Sold!"
So now I'm helping him retrofit a house w/new ductwork in the attic and new a/c-heatpump. Sprayed fiberglass insulation in the ceiling with a 4/12 pitch roof:confused2:> It's hot,sweaty,dirty, labor-intensive work...10 hr days and I get back to my motel room each night tired,dirty and itchin' like crazy...But I've got a full belly and the Blueridge parkway to look at :thumbsup:!

My room cost $150 for the week and with about $150 in expenses(gas,snacks and a couple of meals at the local grills), I'll probably end up clearing 'bout $200 for the week! (cash money)

I'm doing it to help a friend in need and to enjoy the mountains of NC. But If I was gettin' taxed I'd be lucky to clear $50 after living expenses!!! I'm in a cheap motel w/ a busted TV and can only make local calls...and if I was stayin' longer I'd have to spend another $15 a week to do all my dirty laundry!!!

I hate to say this, but there's no such thing as a universally "fair" wage in today's economy. He has to constantly cut his prices to compete w/all the low-ballers using cheap labor (illegal), yet his material/operating expenses are always going up.:mad: According to him,"Qualified" heat-n-air workers should get $15 to $25 an hour, but there's just no way he can afford to pay skilled workers and still operate his business legitimately.(Liability and workmen's comp. insurance, TAXES, fuel, vehicle and equipment maint., etc.)

I'm obviously not doing it for the money. He's my friend and I'm just helping him out while I enjoy the mountain views and some bluegrass music! (Heritage festival this weekend!:thumbsup:)

If I had to support a wife and/or kids, I'd be hard pressed to do it on $15 an hour, much less $10.
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #79  
I have a 19 year old nephew who is just finishing his third summer working for a neighbor farmer. My nephew has run crews, done major repairs on tractors and berry pickers, and sometimes works for a week at a time without supervision. He hasn't spent a penny of his paycheck, but has made ends meet by repairing gaming consoles and other junk he has bought and sold on Craigslist. This winter he will finish his associates degree, then he plans to enlist in the Navy. He wants to be a SEAL. Eventually he wants to farm, but he knows he has to put together a major bankroll first.

The neighbor thinks he was lucky to find him, and is unhappy that my nephew is going into the Navy. There is good help out there. Granted, finding a 17 year old who can replace a busted piston in a big diesel engine in the middle of a wheat field is pretty unusual, but there are a bunch of sharp, hard working kids out there. You just won't find them hanging out on street corners. Try the graduating members of the local FFA chapter.
 
   / Good Help (So Hard to Find) #80  
I have a 19 year old nephew who is just finishing his third summer working for a neighbor farmer. My nephew has run crews, done major repairs on tractors and berry pickers, and sometimes works for a week at a time without supervision. He hasn't spent a penny of his paycheck, but has made ends meet by repairing gaming consoles and other junk he has bought and sold on Craigslist. This winter he will finish his associates degree, then he plans to enlist in the Navy. He wants to be a SEAL. Eventually he wants to farm, but he knows he has to put together a major bankroll first.

The neighbor thinks he was lucky to find him, and is unhappy that my nephew is going into the Navy. There is good help out there. Granted, finding a 17 year old who can replace a busted piston in a big diesel engine in the middle of a wheat field is pretty unusual, but there are a bunch of sharp, hard working kids out there. You just won't find them hanging out on street corners. Try the graduating members of the local FFA chapter.

Your neighbor should try harder to keep him. More money and perhaps helping him get his own farm?
 

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