Goose Neck trailer pulling

longway5 · Aug 31, 2004

To my understanding, a class "c" license is good for anything up to 26,000 lbs, non-commercial. I used to drive an F350 that with GN weighed in around 18-20k, and was never pulled over. The truck did have a DOT number, but it was owned by the college I was at, and I was never told by anyone at the college that I needed anything other than to be on the school's insurance. I guess its all in what state your in.
I do miss driving it though. It was a '99 F350 diesel dully, crew cab, 6 speed, 4 wheel drive, custom aluminum flatbed, and GN ball. Real fun to drive, and handled the trailer with ease.

DavesTractor · Aug 31, 2004

( To my understanding, a class "c" license is good for anything up to 26,000 lbs, non-commercial. I used to drive an F350 that with GN weighed in around 18-20k, and was never pulled over. )

I drove probably over 100,000 miles with mine before I got pulled over. You are right on the 26K, except when you are pulling a trailer, then the 10,001 plus lb trailer GVWR puts you into a Class A, even if you are not for hire. RV's and stock trailers have a higher threshold. I think this is federal, but isn't well enforced in most areas. I always figured since my one ton dually had a pickup bed and I wasn't hauling for hire I was fine...not so. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

LarryRB · Aug 31, 2004

you are correct as some time back, the federal law was posted here.. Any trailer with a weight over 10,000 lb REGARDLESS of what vehicel pulls that trailer is CDL qualified. It is also true that in most areas it is overlooked.. In my area, it is not, in fact today, at the scale house, every single U-Haul, I counted 4 of them, a full sized bus like a Greyhound company style, a pick up with a equipment trailer and several other smaller straight trucks were all caught by CT finest.. This, has been going on here almost daily for 3 months running, They seem to take great pride in those that feel exempt and drive by the scale house.. Overall though, most areas could care less and don't push it

Phred · Aug 31, 2004

We have been over the CDL issue at least once on this forum, and I can not find any evidence that there is a federal law that applies to Ag use of trucks and trailers.

Here is a quote from the Arkansas DMV:
". What type of license do I need to drive?
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided that the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Minimum age of 18.

Class B - Any single vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 pounds or more and any vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds. Minimum age of 18.

Class C - Any single vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of less than 26,001 or any such vehicles towing a vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating not in excess of 10,000 pounds comprising: (1) vehicles designed to transport 16 passengers or more, including driver; (2) vehicles used in the transport of hazardous materials which are placarded. Minimum age of 18.

Class D - Any vehicle which is not a commercial vehicle as described above. Minimum age 14 restricted/16 unrestricted.

Class M - Any motorcycle with displaces more than 250 cc's. Minimum age 16.

Class MD - Any motor driven cycle, excluding motorized bicycles, which displaces 250 cc's or less. Minimum age 14. Expires on 16th birthday. "

So how is it that I need a CDL for example to pull my dump trailer with my pickup truck?
1Ton SRW with a GVWR of 9900 lbs, GCWR is 20K. Trailer has two 5200 lbs axels.

Class A does not apply because GCWR is 20K.
Class B does not apply for the same reason.
Class C is worded in a confusing way but I don't carry passengers and no placards last time I checked.
Class M and MD are obviously not the case.

So the winner is Class D, which is the normal drivers license.

Also who would enforce a federal law? The local highway patrol and sherif? I doubt this...

In CA they must have a different set of rules.....

Fred

JayC · Aug 31, 2004

Not sure if this is just for MI or is a federal thing, but this is from the MI Secretary of State website:

Who Needs a Commercial Driver License (CDL)?

Any Michigan resident who intends to operate the following commercial vehicles is required to have a commercial driver license:

Single Vehicles - Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)* of 26,001 pounds or more.

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** is 26,001 pounds or more.

Vehicles:

*
Designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver)
*
Carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding

*Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the recommended maximum total weight of the vehicle and load as designated by the vehicle manufacturer. The GVWR label is usually found on the driver side door post of the power unit and on the front left side of the trailer. The GVWR should not be confused with the elected gross vehicle weight (GVW) which is declared by the vehicle owner for registration purposes.

**Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a combination vehicle. In the absence of a label, the GCWR can be calculated by adding the GVWR of the power unit to the GVWR of the vehicle(s) or trailer(s) being towed.

Exemptions

The following people do not need a CDL:

Active Duty Military (including National Guard): With military licenses operating military vehicles.

Police Officers and Firefighters: Meeting approved training standards and operating authorized emergency vehicles.

Farmers: Operating vehicles within a 150 mile radius of their farm.

*
An F-endorsement is needed by farmers operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. A knowledge test, but no skills test, is required to obtain the F-endorsement.
*
However, farmers who carry hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding while operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or a single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, need a CDL with a hazardous materials endorsement.

Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes.

The last exmption has me a bit confused. So, if you have a heavy load that would otherwise be within CDL requirements, if you are just moving the load for non-business purposes you don't need a CDL? For example, if you are moving, say a John Deere 110TLB size machine to help out a friend, would that qualify under the exemption?

Phred · Aug 31, 2004

( The other salesman there said I should stick to what the manual says but that he had sold this style 250 to people hauling cattle, was sure they hauled a lot over what I intended to do and 'as far as he knew' they never had a problem.
)

Frankly they will tell you as many lies as it takes to close the deal...
When I bought my last truck the sales guy gave me the standard BS about pulling the moon to the earth with this truck. He also knew all sorts of people that apparently pull fully loaded semi-trailers on a regular basis..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I knew he was full of it and ignored him.

Then after I closed the deal another guy at the dealership sat me down to go over waranty and other paper work, and he says something like
"You know that 10K is about the max you want to pull with this truck". Also BS, he was just trying to keep people from working these trucks so that they minimize waranty problems.

Do your own homework on GVWR and GCWR and then you can ignore all the sales man noise.

Fred

Egon · Sep 1, 2004

Just for information; Nova Scotia driver licence

Classes of Driver's Licences: In Nova Scotia, drivers are licensed according to the type(s) of vehicle(s) they are qualified to drive. As a result, there are several different classes of Nova Scotia Driver's Licences. These include:
Class 5 -- (the most common) -- for driving cars, pick-up trucks, sport utility vehicles and vans seating less than 10 people;
Class 7 -- Learner's Licence, for those learning to drive class 5 vehicles (see Learner's Licence);
Class 1 -- for driving semi-trailers & tractor-trailer combinations;
Class 2 -- for driving large buses (over 24 passengers);
Class 3 -- for driving vehicles or vehicle-trailer combinations weighing greater than 14,000 kilograms (approximately 15 tons);
Class 4 -- for driving smaller buses, vans seating more than 10 people, taxis and ambulances;
Class 6 -- for driving motorcycles and motor-driven cycles (see Motorcycle Driver's Licence);
Class 8 -- for driving farm tractors.

Egon

LarryRB · Sep 1, 2004

we've been over this a hundred times and after this I'm not going to post anymore,, First thing is, and it's the big one,, how does your area police INTERPRET the law? Here, any trailer 10g's or over is interpreted to need a CDL, regardless of what the power vehicle is. End of story. It does not distinguish between what is AG, Commercial. private use or other..If you pull a trailer that is rated 10g or more, then at least a class B cdl is required. You just posted your trailer is 9900 so, no need for a cdl as your under by 100lbs. Most areas in this country could care less, even more so as one travels a huge farming district. I don't care to maintain this argumetn going., I simply stated time and again the CT and other areas of this country interpret laws differently then other areas. Therefore, you will get a multitude of answers to a simple question.

Mark4510 · Sep 1, 2004

Brad,
Sounds like you are getting a good deal on a trailer and it should fill your needs. Making sure that you are legal is always good and that the stated hauling capacity of the rig is appropriate is smart.

You have hauled enough to know that its rarely the 99.9999% of the time that you have a problem. It's that rare time when a combination of bad things happen all at once that causes you to have a problem. As mentioned....balance the load as much as you can with live stock. All it takes is for one big horse to panic and start to scramble in the trailer at the wrong moment, for it all to head south.

By the way......what kind of horses do you have?
Mark

bradheiter · Sep 1, 2004

Hi Mark4510,
Thanks for the input. I don't have any horses /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif BUT my wife has Belgians. Ranging from 1500 lbs (the horses she has) to about 2000 lbs each for the team she is looking at getting. Yea, when things are going well you can tow alot 'safely' (one may be fooling themself) (I was in thinking that all gas powered F250s are nearly the same), but when things go to ***** I always wonder how I got myself into this. My biggest pucker factors (so far) are when drivers pull out from side streets "so they don't get stuck behind a truck/trailer?" (I'm guessing) or when the oncoming driver almost comes to a complete stop and then turns in front of you at the last moment, cutting you off--do they do that for sport? Are they hopeing my insurance is paid up?.

LarryRB,
Yea, The law IS The law, yea right.....here in my area the local officer will see 'farm use' and if he doesn't like what he see's he'll put his lights on and run up front to warn people, the county guys will pull them over and maybe issue a warning and the state guys will park you... Interpretation--maybe--selective enforcement--maybe--As you said, you really need to know your area.
Brad

Phred · Sep 1, 2004

Larry,

Well I hope you keep posting. I am not trying to argue but at the same time I feel the need to layout the facts, as I see them in my area.

My trailers has two 5200 lbs axels so it would seem It can legally haul just over the limit your talking about. Its the truck that has a GVWR of 9900 lbs.

I think you make the key point. It depends on where you are in this country.

Its common around here to pull very heavy trailers, way over 10K, with 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. Now I have no official data.... but I do not know anyone that has gone out and obtained a CDL for this application.

I am talking about 1 tons with no DOT markings, pulling gooseneck trailers with dual axels, each with dual wheels. So these are 20K rated trailers. These trailers often are loaded with backhoes and sometimes dozers. Or stacked to the brim with round bales of hay. Even a short trailer may end up with the better part of 14K of hay plus the trailer weight.

I have never seen any of these truck pulled over for a chat with the highway patrol or the local PD.
I see tons of people pulled over for speeding, but not for driving in a reasonable way with a heavy trailer.

Fred

RedDog · Sep 2, 2004

( Larry,

Well I hope you keep posting. I am not trying to argue but at the same time I feel the need to layout the facts, as I see them in my area.

My trailers has two 5200 lbs axels so it would seem It can legally haul just over the limit your talking about. Its the truck that has a GVWR of 9900 lbs.

I think you make the key point. It depends on where you are in this country.

Its common around here to pull very heavy trailers, way over 10K, with 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. Now I have no official data.... but I do not know anyone that has gone out and obtained a CDL for this application.

I am talking about 1 tons with no DOT markings, pulling gooseneck trailers with dual axels, each with dual wheels. So these are 20K rated trailers. These trailers often are loaded with backhoes and sometimes dozers. Or stacked to the brim with round bales of hay. Even a short trailer may end up with the better part of 14K of hay plus the trailer weight.

I have never seen any of these truck pulled over for a chat with the highway patrol or the local PD.
I see tons of people pulled over for speeding, but not for driving in a reasonable way with a heavy trailer.

Fred )

Fred,
Same here with what you mentioned above. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I still trying to figure out where this 10K number is coming from for CDL? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif With my license, I can drive anything, except a school bus. I think that 10K number is for what a trailer weighs empty,,, ex: semi trailer. It can not mean loaded.

RedDog

pekabu · Sep 2, 2004

It just dawned on me that I recently rented a 10k trailer to move my tractor. I had a really hard time trying to find a place to rent trailers. I asked them about it and he said trailers were the biggest claims in the Rental business, but they've had good luck so far. The trailer was bigger than I needed.

I don't know a lot about this area, but my Father in law has been pulled over a few times over the years with the DOT as a CDL truck driver (driving a TT). A couple of times they have pulled him over, and had to pull out the book, and call in the captain (or whover is in charge) to figure out what's what. Last time he sat there and hour and a half. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SageBrush · Sep 2, 2004

Georgia: Class C

Motor vehicles less than 26,001 pounds and all vehicles not included within Classes A, B and M. This includes passenger cars, trucks and vehicles pulling a trailing unit that weighs less than 10,000 pounds (GVWR). All recreational vehicles may be operated with a Class C license. Applicant must be at least 18 years of age.

These things are not enforced, almost everybody I know that pulls a trailer goes over 10K. I pull 12K plus all the time with my equipment hauler. All the equipment rental stores haul bob cats on standard class C's around here.

Anyone try to get a Class A in a PU in Georgia? I've seen single axle dumps with 10 ton trailers taking the test. Never seen a person in a personal light duty truck taking the test.

Its not a big deal, cost a few bucks and takes up most of one day. A DOT Health Card may be a problem for some. You must pass a physical first. Maybe if I haul my ATV all the time I will look "recreational". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DavesTractor · Sep 2, 2004

The commercial motor vehicle act in 1986 was meant to standardize certain things between states. It appears there are certain minimum standards, but some states have even tighter rules.

California and some other states do require a class "A" for towing a 10K plus GVWR (not empty weight or loaded weight, but gross vehicle weight rating) non-RV or non-stock trailer, regardless of the towing vehicle size. Even so, California has only recently begun enforcing this, much to my dismay.

Federal Commercial CDL Info

So I think we have various opinions on this and probably many are correct due to the various state laws. It is worth checking with your local commercial highway patrol though, as it is bad news to get a "driving out of license" ticket.

DavesTractor · Sep 2, 2004

One other thing...I recently took my class "A" and used my pickup and 23' gooseneck trailer for the pre-trip, skills and road test. Seemed odd, but it wasn't a problem.

Bird · Sep 3, 2004

One of my brothers recently got his class A using a one ton dually Ford crew cab, pulling the 38' triple axle fifth wheel travel trailer he and his wife live in.

cowboydoc · Sep 3, 2004

All recreational vehicles may be operated with a Class C license. 

This is pretty much the statute in every state. It's important to make the distinction. I've hauled horses all over the country and never once in over a million miles been stopped or even questioned when I was pulled over for speeding or something. With my LQ trailer I'm always over 26k.

MikeIA · Sep 3, 2004

( One other thing...I recently took my class "A" and used my pickup and 23' gooseneck trailer for the pre-trip, skills and road test. Seemed odd, but it wasn't a problem. )

When I've renewed my CDL in Iowa the last couple of times, I've had to sign a form stating that I don't drive anything bigger than the vehicle I took my test in.

SageBrush · Sep 4, 2004

( ( One other thing...I recently took my class "A" and used my pickup and 23' gooseneck trailer for the pre-trip, skills and road test. Seemed odd, but it wasn't a problem. )

When I've renewed my CDL in Iowa the last couple of times, I've had to sign a form stating that I don't drive anything bigger than the vehicle I took my test in. )

Same here