Gooseneck or bumper pull?

[Rancher Ed]

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Because its a FACT that you can make a TIGHTER 90-degree turn with a BP trailer.
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I understand what you are saying but it is not necessarily true/not true all the time. You are specifically addressing turning into an opening between two fixed objects, and you are right that most BP trailers can turn into a narrower opening than can a gooseneck.

However, most of the time shorter BP trailers are compared to longer gooseneck trailers.
With a shorter BP trailer the limiting factor in how sharp you can turn is the turning radius of the towing vehicle. With a longer BP trailer, such as a 25' or 30' matching the most common gooseneck lengths, the trailer can jack-knife going forward and crush the bumper of the towing vehicle if too tight a turn is attempted. In such instances a gooseneck can be turned into a narrower opening due to the ability to reverse the truck closer to the trailer half-way into the turn.

 

[4570Man]

I understand what you are saying but it is not necessarily true/not true all the time. You are specifically addressing turning into an opening between two fixed objects, and you are right that most BP trailers can turn into a narrower opening than can a gooseneck.

However, most of the time shorter BP trailers are compared to longer gooseneck trailers.
With a shorter BP trailer the limiting factor in how sharp you can turn is the turning radius of the towing vehicle. With a longer BP trailer, such as a 25' or 30' matching the most common gooseneck lengths, the trailer can jack-knife going forward and crush the bumper of the towing vehicle if too tight a turn is attempted. In such instances a gooseneck can be turned into a narrower opening due to the ability to reverse the truck closer to the trailer half-way into the turn.

Ford was really thinking ahead with their leaf spring axels and prevented that problem.

 

[5030]

Do you already have customers lined up? I'd be dealing with that first in I were you.

That is how in New England, people who burn wood pellets for heat have them delivered. Suppliers use a tandem axle straight truck with a hydraulic jib crane to set off the one ton pallets and then a pallet truck to put them where the customers want them, usually in a garage.

Down in South Toledo, Cargo Tech not only builds custom jib cranes but mounts them to straight trucks as well. You might want to Goggle them up, I know they have a website.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

If I were you, I'd consider a trailer mounted hydraulic jib crane with sufficient capacity to load and off load the totes instead of hauling your tractor around, similar to what loggers use to load and offload cord wood.

I jib crane would weigh a lot less and give you more cargo capacity.

Or like a brick delivery trailer.

 

[5030]

Or like a brick delivery trailer.

Cargo Tech almost has a monopoly on them around here. All the lumber yards and masonry yards around here have them. I see them with forks and with grabbers as well.

 

[LD1]

I understand what you are saying but it is not necessarily true/not true all the time. You are specifically addressing turning into an opening between two fixed objects, and you are right that most BP trailers can turn into a narrower opening than can a gooseneck.

However, most of the time shorter BP trailers are compared to longer gooseneck trailers.
With a shorter BP trailer the limiting factor in how sharp you can turn is the turning radius of the towing vehicle. With a longer BP trailer, such as a 25' or 30' matching the most common gooseneck lengths, the trailer can jack-knife going forward and crush the bumper of the towing vehicle if too tight a turn is attempted. In such instances a gooseneck can be turned into a narrower opening due to the ability to reverse the truck closer to the trailer half-way into the turn.

I have both a 12' BP dump trailer and a 24' BP equip trailer. My truck will NOT turn short enough to hit the bumper. Only by backing up can I do that.

And by doing that with a gooseneck.....sure you can jacknife beyond what a BP can do.....but by doing that it only keeps the TRUCK on the driveway. By backing up and straightening out the truck....just shortens the radius that the trailer will then take.

My comparison is directly with a 24' BP and a 25' GN. There is NO comparison. Making a 90 degree turn into a driveway off a country road.....the GN needs at LEAST 10' wider drive approach than the BP that follows much closer to the trucks track

 

[LD1]

My objective is to deliver bulk bags of firewood. Like this:

Northern Woodsmen Face Cord Firewood Tote Bags

Your source for forestry tools and supplies, arborist gear, kiln drying services, and local hardwood lumber sales.

northernwoodsmen.com

The bags are on 40x48 pallets. Four units on a trailer and the tractor. It seems the best approach is to park on the road and lift the bags off the side of the trailer. I was looking at about a 22-24' foot trailer.

The bags hold 1/3 cord of wood and should weigh about 1300-1600 lbs each. That puts a max. of 6400 lbs on the first 8 ft of the trailer and the tractor weighs 5500 lbs.

A potential max of 11,900 on a 22-24' trailer is gonna be a no-go with just about any 14k trailer. You need a 16k for sure.

And sadly.....6400# on the first 8' of either a BP or a GN trailer I think is not gonna go so well with a 3/4 ton truck. just my 2-cents

 

[ovrszd]

Because its a FACT that you can make a TIGHTER 90-degree turn with a BP trailer.

That all depends on the length of the trailer tongue. With a BP trailer with a short tongue, a really tight turn will destroy your bumper or worse. Not an issue with a GN until you put one past 90 degrees and run the upper deck or GN into your truck cab.

That is a FACT.

Yeah, I have yet to own a BP trailer that I can turn the truck 90 degrees without damage. Both rear corners of my old truck are evidence.

 

[shooterdon]

A potential max of 11,900 on a 22-24' trailer is gonna be a no-go with just about any 14k trailer. You need a 16k for sure.

And sadly.....6400# on the first 8' of either a BP or a GN trailer I think is not gonna go so well with a 3/4 ton truck. just my 2-cents

I was afraid of that. I have decided a box truck or flatbed with a lift gate may be the best option. A crane, like 5030 suggested, on a flatbed may be another option.

 

[LD1]

Yeah, I have yet to own a BP trailer that I can turn the truck 90 degrees without damage. Both rear corners of my old truck are evidence.

I agree. But I have also yet to have a BP that you can get anywhere close to 90 degrees just by going forward. You gotta back up and jacknife it to get to the point of damaging something.

 

[LD1]

I was afraid of that. I have decided a box truck or flatbed with a lift gate may be the best option. A crane, like 5030 suggested, on a flatbed may be another option.

Yea, a 26k flatbed with a lift gate is probably gonna be light enough to give you at least a 8k-10k payload that you want. But is a pallet jack to move the bundles of firewood gonna be enough to get the material where the customer wants. Like if they dont have equipment themselves and a gravel driveway or something?

If the tractor is only 5500lbs......you can always get a 26k straight truck with a flat bed.....and tow a 10k trailer behind it. Put the wood on the flat bed and the tractor on the 10k trailer. That still keeps you under CDL.

 

[shooterdon]

Tea, a 26k flatbed with a lift gate is probably gonna be light enough to give you at least a 8k-10k payload that you want. But is a pallet jack to move the bundles of firewood gonna be enough to get the material where the customer wants. Like if they dont have equipment themselves and a gravel driveway or something?

If the tractor is only 5500lbs......you can always get a 26k straight truck with a flat bed.....and tow a 10k trailer behind it. Put the wood on the flat bed and the tractor on the 10k trailer. That still keeps you under CDL.

I like the concept of having a 10K trailer for the tractor. I will still need an electric pallet jack if the customer wants bags in their garage as my tractor is too tall to fit in a residential garage.

But you are correct, an electric pallet jack needs a decent surface to operate on. Most folks seem to have at least a cement pad in front of their garages but not everyone. I can always put down a sheet of OSB between the tailgate and garage.

I found this:

https://www.northerntool.com/products/vestil-all-terrain-pallet-truck-with-24v-dc-battery-pack-3000-lb-capacity-68in-l-x-62in-w-model-rt-ept-3-48-102438#hotbar-description

A lot of money and it will not fit on a lift gate.

 

[ovrszd]

Common here to see trucks carrying a similar pallet truck on the rear of their trucks. Using the forks to pick it up and fasten it to the truck. Usually delivering pallets of shingles or bricks.

Would eliminate the need for the trailer and tractor. Would streamline the operation and equipment list involved. Would broaden the abilities of unloading and placing the pallets.

Would probably add considerably to the equipment cost involved.

We have a few "commercial grade" firewood suppliers here. They all split into dump trailers. The customer gets a pile of splits wherever they want it dumped. I suppose they might hand stack if the customer wants to pay the additional cost. Friend of mine operates this way and sells around 350 cords a year.

 

[shooterdon]

Common here to see trucks carrying a similar pallet truck on the rear of their trucks. Using the forks to pick it up and fasten it to the truck. Usually delivering pallets of shingles or bricks.

Would eliminate the need for the trailer and tractor. Would streamline the operation and equipment list involved. Would broaden the abilities of unloading and placing the pallets.

Would probably add considerably to the equipment cost involved.

We have a few "commercial grade" firewood suppliers here. They all split into dump trailers. The customer gets a pile of splits wherever they want it dumped. I suppose they might hand stack if the customer wants to pay the additional cost. Friend of mine operates this way and sells around 350 cords a year.

Richard,

The units you are describing sound like Moffetts. Great machines but way too expensive for what I could justify.

I looked at using a dump trailer as that is what everyone here uses. But then I offer no "value added" service. It means competing on price alone.

I want to offer a product that does not leave a bunch of crap on the grass or driveway to clean up and needs to be hand stacked. I see firewood dumped on a driveway and the customer cannot get into their garage until they move it. It may be worth another $30/cord for some folks if they can have the wood staged where they want it and not have a mess to deal with.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

To the OP:

So far we know you are looking at a 14k-16k trailer and a 2500 truck.

But I think we need to know more about what you plan on trailering.....and trailering to where to answer your questions.

For example....how long of a trailer are you looking at? And assuming you are looking at a ~9000-10000 payload capacity?

Too many different configurations of a 3/4-ton truck out there right now.....but my concern with a GN would also be the payload capacity of a 3/4-ton may limit you.

a 1-ton dually with a GN is definitely alot more forgiving about load placement/balance. IE....tongue weight. But a 3/4-ton truck with a 10k load on a GN.....it would be pretty easy to overload the truck if one isnt careful.

And are you looking for something to tow around a farm? In and out of fields? Or to-from businesses? Or are you looking at moving equipment to/from customers jobsites (residential) jobs. Because there are ALOT of driveways I would just park a GN at the road because there was no way to get a GN in the drive.

I went from a 25' GN to a 24' BP trailer. I wasnt opposed to staying with a GN....Just couldnt find what I wanted. Because I did NOT want a deckover. Its a lot easier loading/unloading.....and climbing on/off of a lower trailer with the deck between the fenders.

GN trailers are also HEAVIER.....which can eat into the payload capacity of both truck and trailer if you plan on towing something that is pushing the 26k limit.

A good GN trailer weighs about 6k easily.

 

[ovrszd]

Richard,

The units you are describing sound like Moffetts. Great machines but way too expensive for what I could justify.

I looked at using a dump trailer as that is what everyone here uses. But then I offer no "value added" service. It means competing on price alone.

I want to offer a product that does not leave a bunch of crap on the grass or driveway to clean up and needs to be hand stacked. I see firewood dumped on a driveway and the customer cannot get into their garage until they move it. It may be worth another $30/cord for some folks if they can have the wood staged where they want it and not have a mess to deal with.

I absolutely agree Don.

If you want to minimize machine investment I'd think flatbed truck pulling a trailer hauling the tractor.

Maybe a Ford F450 or 550? Not sure a ton truck would like a large load of wood and pulling the trailer?

 

[4570Man]

Common here to see trucks carrying a similar pallet truck on the rear of their trucks. Using the forks to pick it up and fasten it to the truck. Usually delivering pallets of shingles or bricks.

Would eliminate the need for the trailer and tractor. Would streamline the operation and equipment list involved. Would broaden the abilities of unloading and placing the pallets.

Would probably add considerably to the equipment cost involved.

We have a few "commercial grade" firewood suppliers here. They all split into dump trailers. The customer gets a pile of splits wherever they want it dumped. I suppose they might hand stack if the customer wants to pay the additional cost. Friend of mine operates this way and sells around 350 cords a year.

I’ve never seen a moffit lift on a non CDL truck. They weigh around 6k which would burn too much payload on a 26k truck. They usually ride on tandem and tri axel delivery flatbeds. I’ve also seen semi flatbed trailers setup to carry them. They aren’t cheap either.

 

[4570Man]

A potential max of 11,900 on a 22-24' trailer is gonna be a no-go with just about any 14k trailer. You need a 16k for sure.

And sadly.....6400# on the first 8' of either a BP or a GN trailer I think is not gonna go so well with a 3/4 ton truck. just my 2-cents

I load my 10 ton trailer like that but you’re right a 3/4 ton truck would be crying with that kind of hitch weight. Probably to the point the front wheels are off the ground. My ton dually wouldn’t be happy either. I could probably manage the load the op plans on hauling with my ton dually and 14k trailer if I put half the bags on the flatbed and half on the trailer.

 

[ttouring]

Which one is safer and more forgiving with respect to trailer load balancing?







Which one is easier to back up?

lllR trailer.




No doubt gooseneck

 

[Hay Dude]

One of the options I am looking at is a used flatbed with a jib crane. A flatbed would be easier to maneuver. I can use the tractor to load the flatbed and then use the crane to off load the bags or dump them where the customer wants them.

One advantage of the bulk bags is being able to stage them in a garage, under a car port, etc so I would like to be able to move them once unloaded. I am looking at using a powered pallet jack to move the bag/pallet if I go with the flatbed idea.

I have found a few flatbeds with lift gates and then a crane will not be needed.

Can you do a box truck with a Tommy gate and one of those small pallet jacks? As you have indicated, a box truck is a great place to store your wood pre delivery, like a 1 car garage.

Or, could you do same as above, but pull a 10K trailer with a small skid steer with folks to run them from truck to customer (or maybe this is for yourself only)?

26K or less truck with 10K or less trailer is no CDL.