Gordon..gotta question..

Richard · Feb 12, 2001

The basic question is, how "worried" do you become?

Scenario: You are contracted to selectively timber a tract of land. The land is a farm with 3 residences in the middle of the premise. You send your title search dude out to verify land boundaries and then start cutting.

Oops, you find out AFTER you are done that one of the houses has a "thread" of land that is the legal driveway, that snakes through the woods to the county road. This thread of land, maybe 30 feet wide by 1/4 mile is NOT in the contract, the land owner did NOT sell you the timber and your boys clearly trespassed all over the land AND swiped ALL the timber off the thread. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Do you become worried? Or is there some legal mumbo jumbo that lets you "off the hook"?

Any recourse you would fear from the landowner?

Curious mind want's to know (and yes, this IS my situation, I'm debating on how large of a stink to make)

Thanks for any thoughts
Richard

rekees · Feb 12, 2001

Richard

>>Do you become worried? Or is there some legal mumbo jumbo that lets you "off the hook"?<<

The answer is that you become worried. You would be prudent to explain the situation to an attorney.

Chuck in IN

gordon · Feb 12, 2001

How worried would I be if I was the timber faller---not at all. If I was the landowner who contracted me then I would be worried. Bottom line is how the contract is written. I have in my contracts that it's the burden of the landowner to mark all boundries. But it's my burden to adhere to B.M.P. and take care of all buffer zones off the boundries and creeks.

Someone will have to pay that landowner for the timber that was removed without prior permission. Also it can be written into the contract a fine for cutting unmarked trees as well. Then If I was the feller I would be worried. There are alot of maybe-maybe nots on this one.

Please tell me who contracted who and if so how was the contract written. Who is responsible for the boundries? Who is responsible for marking the trees to be cut?

For everyone else reading this remember if your going to have timber cut off your property do not and I repeat do NOT trust xyz logging company to selectively cut your property. More times than not it will be high grade logged leaving you with a bunch of trash trees. Always get a foresters opinion before doing any contract signing and lastly make sure you've got a good contract with a decent company. Ask for some prior jobs that they have done recently and get in touch with those landowners before you sign.
Gordon

gordon · Feb 12, 2001

Re: Gordon..gotta question..Timberbuyer.net

Here is an excellent board on forestry. Are you listening all you Mich guys and gals!!! It has a sample timber contract that you could look at. Give it a quick look and let me know.
Even has an ask the forester
http://www.timberbuyer.net/

But what is even cooler is that there is a downloadable timber toolbox. It's great!!! Just tell them that Gordon sent ya!
Gordon

TWINKLE_TOES · Feb 12, 2001

Re: Gordon..gotta question..Timberbuyer.net

Way Cool Site Gordon,

I'll bet your favorites list is longer than the Mississippi. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I took the "Timber Quiz", missed where Smokey the bear was buried and building roads with small trees. My stepdad retired as Asst. Idaho State Forestor after 39 years. He grew up in a cc camp, knew an awful lot about the woods and had a zillion tales.

jyoutz · Feb 13, 2001

Great advice Gordon. I'm a forester and I must say that when I used to work in extension forestry, I ran across many sad stories with unhappy endings. These stories always seem to begin with the timber purchaser selecting trees for harvest, backed up by a purchaser prepared contract. In most cases, the landowner only consults with a forester after an unsatisfactory project is complete and he then wants to know how to improve his forestland. In cases where professional assistance was used right from the beginning, I have heard of very few landowners unhappy with the results. No, I'm not trying to drum up business. I work for the federal government.

Richard · Feb 13, 2001

Hi Gordon,

Thanks for reply.

Without too many sordid details, the larger land mass is owned by father and uncle in laws. We three have our houses in about the same centralized area with ALL three of our TREE’ED driveways snaking through the woods in what I believe to be a 75 foot swath. We have an easement for our physical access, so all of the legal driveways actually are “non-existent” and travel through the woods, existing on paper only.

That said, the contract is actually with father & uncle in laws. They hired a forrester (who in fact, bagged them an extra $100,000 over their timber dude original bid)

I don’t know the specifics on how contract was written, I DO know the forrester dude marked the trees to be cut, the purchaser hired an attorney to do a title search. I would speculate that there is NOT a penalty in the contract for cutting (or running over) trees that are NOT marked. I as a land owner never signed or agreed to anything with anyone as far as dropping a single one of our trees.

I must admit that I’m not too angry that they cut the trees down, after all, the land was given to us to build on and I don’t have a problem with the inlaws getting some $$ for the trees, HOWEVER, this is the feller dude that has left a HUGE skidder tire buried under some scraps and his attitude is “aw, just burn it”. He has repeatedly said for last maybe 4 months that he needs to get the tire and “is going to next week or so”. I’m over him putting us off and if his cutting my trees down gives me some bonafide leverage to get his hiney out ASAP to get his %^$&*) TIRE so I can start cleaning up after him, then THAT is my goal.

Does that clarify anything?

Thanks again

Richard

gordon · Feb 13, 2001

Ok let make sure that I'm understanding you, really the only thing you want is the skidder tire gone.

If thats the case call him and very politely say that you have till Monday to have the tire gone from the property or I will have no recourse but to call--State Police and the Dept of Natural resourses. If that doesn't stir him up quick nothing will. The reason to call both is that State Police for illegal dumping and DNR will more than likely have there own police that will get him on the logging end of the deal.

Remember use a monotone voice and tell him the ball is in your end of the court how do you want to handle it. Something in my heart tells me you will be rid of a skidder tire this week.
Gordon

Richard · Feb 14, 2001

Gordon...I think you not only perceived my pain correctly, but I think I like your answer /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

The tire IS the problem and their cavilier attitude about it REALLY stiffens my spine on principle. (I'm one of those moron's that will fight you to the death if I am hooked on principle)

Ok, so another question...

Joe Doe is the "purchaser" of the trees. Joe Doe hired Joe MORON to cut & deliver the trees.

Joe MORON is the dude who left the tire.
BOTH Joe's know the tire is there, both say it has to go.

Which "Joe" do I inform of the thought to inform State Police and DNR?? (maybe both?)

I DO appreciate your insight.

Richard