Got a clunker?

[Duffster]

Dufster, it is no secret what it takes to heat homes built to code. In my case it is $600 this season (for 5 cord of firewood). My utility bills are about $75/month which is the annual average including running the air conditioner. Last year we had a particularly hot summer and the air conditioning bill ran close to $150/month for nearly 4 months. But if I ran the natural gas furnace (cheapest "conventional" source of heat) it would be on the order of $1300 per season minimum and that would be with the thermostat set to 65. Those in rural areas are on propane and looking at more than $2500 per season. Perhaps you have been to hearth.com and read what people are going through the last couple of winters. .

You would have to be heating a corn crib to pay that much.

Did you notice Hugo Chavez donating heating oil to low income americans 2 years ago ? It seems to suggest that people cant afford to keep their homes warm. That seems to suggest that some will benefit from more insulation.
.

Do low income people live in new homes with current building codes.

People who insulate beyond code requirement and apply passive solar techniques when the home is built will typically save over $1000/season in utility bills assuming they are on natural gas. That amount will increase if it includes a "cold roof" providing a benefit in summer. That doesn't sound like much now, but that is without taking inflation into account. And as we know, amortization on the insulation in your home runs over a very long period, typically several mortgage terms.

Nonsense, I built a new house for my inlaws 7 years ago. The "budget" payment for there gas bill just went done from $60/month and that includes gas hot water, gas stove and a gas clothes dryer. The latter of the three could easily account for half that gas.

Granted we have pretty strict codes already.

 

[Double Orange]

Dargo, as my own example shows, I can save $2300 a year at current fuel prices. I recieved $4500 from the clunker program, so it will be amortized in just less than 2 years if we have no inflation (like thats going to happen). I will likely keep driving the car for the next 8 years after that, just like I did with the vehicle I traded in. Again, assuming no inflation (ha ha) the payback is going to be $18400, which appears to be a pretty neat Return on Investment. If we have 10% inflation starting after the first 2 years, that payback becomes $28 000. I didn't even own a REAL gas guzzling suv in the first place, just an awd wagon with a 2.8 V6. Apparently Ford Explorers are the #1 traded in vehicle. Depending on the choices those folks make, their payback numbers will make mine look silly.

So mathematically, your story is BS. It sounds like party line retoric, repeated verbatum.

You stole $4500 from tax payers and to add insult to injury you try to justify it will B/S Math.

 

[Duffster]

You stole $4500 from tax payers and to add insult to injury you try to justify it will B/S Math.

Well said.

 

[westcliffe01]

Less than 200/month for heating ?

Lots of low income people live in rented apartments, built by developers to code.

What was the size of the home you built and what constitutes your code ?

Here is ours: (and I think it is pretty poor for our climate)

You would have to be heating a corn crib to pay that much.
Do low income people live in new homes with current building codes.

Nonsense, I built a new house for my inlaws 7 years ago. The "budget" payment for there gas bill just went done from $60/month and that includes gas hot water, gas stove and a gas clothes dryer. The latter of the three could easily account for half that gas.

Granted we have pretty strict codes already.

 

[westcliffe01]

If you know the math to be BS show me the correction ? Or is ALL math BS to you ? I make a living from doing math and I don't mean as a school teacher.. or an accountant

You stole $4500 from tax payers and to add insult to injury you try to justify it will B/S Math.

 

[Double Orange]

If you know the math to be BS show me the correction ? Or is ALL math BS to you ? I make a living from doing math and I don't mean as a school teacher.. or an accountant

Take your 15000. loan at current 10 yr bond rate 3.45% you loose!
Hows that bit you asx.

 

[westcliffe01]

My loan doesn't cost you or any other taxpayer anything and the interest charges contribute towards gross domestic product, which is apparently what makes the wheels turn and keeps all of us in a job.

So if I wasn't going to pay for the car, what are you suggesting ? That we all steal cars in the future ?

And name calling is lowball.

 

[Duffster]

What was the size of the home you built and what constitutes your code ?

1800 sq/ft plus with a 3 sided walk out basement

Don't recall the code of the top of my head but the walls where built to R-19, basement walls to R-13/R-19 and the attic to a R-44.

 

[westcliffe01]

The problem is that you don't understand that the scheme actually makes sense. You didn't do the math to figure out whether you could break even. And, worst of all, apparently the old gas guzzlers that in most cases had a "new" sticker price higher than my import are considered a better investment ?

 

[Duffster]

If you know the math to be BS show me the correction ? Or is ALL math BS to you ? I make a living from doing math and I don't mean as a school teacher.. or an accountant

Your fuel savings doesn't return a dollar to the tax payer that paid the $4500.

Thats pretty simple math.