Got to get a deal like that!

[Anonymous Poster]

I'm all for using my tax dollars for security.

Even more so for helping individuals through uninsurable loss.

Is anyone but me blown away by the airlines saying they need 5-10-20 BILLION dollars given to them to bail them out?

I wish my company could go down for a few days and then get a government handout. If they were in trouble before that it's their own damn fault. Selling tickets at no profit just so they can get market share, buy more planes should not be rewarded, it's just stupid business. I only fly about once a year or so, and my September trip I swear was no more expensive then when I used to fly military standby in 1972!

I certainly agree that the security people should be police, not minimum wage airline hires, but sinking billions into a group of companies just so I can go to the airport and fly out every 15 minutes to the same place seems ridiculous.

If the government has the billions to spare, (that we gave them), if anything I think a special payment to the firefighters, police that have lost their lives in the performance of their duties would be more in order.

And I'm almost totally sure I saw a program on airline safety a year or two ago, and am also just about as sure the cockpit door was open when I boarded my plane.

So am I off base? Am I wrong in thinking the airlines were already ailing and are just using this as a reason to get cash?

If you don't operate your company with sufficient reserves to handle problems, why should you be propped up?

Del

 

[glennmac]

I agree. Something is rotten in Denmark.

I have flown a great deal the last two years and airplanes and airports have always been jam packed. The jamming was literal, because the seats kept being narrowed. I cannot believe the airlines were not making good profits. I further cannot believe that any business plunges into bankruptcy by a five day interruption. If that's the case, we will have to bail out every one of the tens of thousands of businesses below Canal Street in Manhattan, all of which have been, and will be, closed longer than the airlines have been.

 

[TonyC]

I agree as well. The airlines have spent all of their time and money trying to out-do each other to the demise of customer service. To me, flying is torture and they made it that way. Like most of corporate America, through all of their ups and downs there are always that group at the top that get rich. All the decisions they make are designed to make THEM richer. This is, in my opinion, why companies in this country are all headed overseas...they have exploited their workers and their customers to the fullest and now it's time to move on.

 

[ejb]

I agree as well. I could see maybe a loan guarantee in order to tie them over, but I am defintely against a taxpayer handout. I only fly once or twice a year (pleasure). If for some reasons a few airlines went out of business and their were no flights, I'd change my plans. Treat them like any other business. If they can't make a profit at the proice they charge, than raise the price of the tickets. If users don't want to pay the full cost of flying, then the service isn't all that important is it?

Besides, how many of the CEO's with their hat in their hands are getting paid multi-milion dollar salaries?

 

[cowboydoc]

Yes I agree as well. It infuriates me to no end that you get start up companies coming into the business and then the big airlines just slash prices so they can't even get a foothold. I'm really mad right now at the big airlines. I won't fly again unless I have to. There was a small company around here called Midwest Airlines. When they started the prices were outrageous to fly to cities in the midwest. These guys saw a need and filled it. They were well funded and bought very high quality planes and catered primarily to business people although they got alot of other people to fly as well. Everything went very well at the first. Then the major airlines started to see that they were actually doing well and completely lowered prices so low that they couldn't compete. They lost market share and went into bankruptcy organization. Then when all of this happened they knew they didn't have the reserve to survive and called it quits. Now to me that is not free enterprise. If you have to sell tickets for less than your cost just to drive an upstart competitor out of business something is wrong. Now the airlines have relyed on their cash reserves to squash the competition and so they want the govt. to bail them out. Now they're using the terrorist attack to profit from it. That's wrong and I can't believe the govt. is even thinking about giving them all that money.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I love the new math...

The noon news today...airlines say the have lost 1 billion dollars since attack. Request 24Billion from government. Hey I wonder if this will work when I break a windshield. I can see my letter to State Farm, have incurred costs of $300, please send $7200.

Chrysler got bailed out because it was too stupid to build anything anyone wanted in the 70s and the imports were killing them.

Now we are expected to subsidize another group of goofs (who make $$$$$$by the way) who run their companies into the ground.

How about the companies that lost 1 10 100 employees last Tuesday, or the thousands of families that lost a loved one, very likely an economic force in their family. Why not take care of them before we worry about airlines that have made their own bed and now don't want to sleep in it.

del

 

[MDNY]

Re: I love the new math...

Not just bad news for the airlines, but for everyone in the travel industry. When the airlines lose money due to catastrophe, so does all the other business tied to them. Cruise lines, Hotels, Car Rentals, Travel & Tourism at large.

I heard the same report, they are losing $250 million a day. Continental cut 12,000 jobs, United is cutting 11,000 jobs, and more are planned very soon.

I only fly a little for business, and some for personal, and they have made huge dollars. We have Jet Blue here in Upstate NY. They opened up a few months ago and offered one way from Central NY to NYC for a range of $59- $99 each way. US Air used Turbo Prop Saab planes (the scarry ones that go all over) $442 round trip. So lets see $118 - $198 vs $442 round trip. I guess I go Jeb Blue. Then only downside is you have to goto JFK vs LaGuardia.

The only bailout should be in terms of loans, not total bailout. But loans that must be repaid within a short term of say 5 years. Alot of airlines are going to go belly up due to the recent events. Not to mention alot of support business like catering services, taxis, and other misc business in airports.

 

[RPM]

I'm a frequent flyer - have been for years. I have to say that I completely agree that this is the biggest crock going. The airlines really don't deserve to be propped up.

1. If people aren't flying, they aren't flying. Just lending / giving money to the airlines will mean that they fly planes with less people in them. Adjust the business to reality.

2. Building on my first point - if people aren't traveling on the empty planes then the hotels, rental car people aren't going to benefit anyway. Those empty airplane seats aren't bringing any more customers.

3. Business in America will go on. We're just adapting to a different set of risks. Stocks in companies like PictureTel that make video-conferencing equipment have already gone up. Local attractions will see more business instead of ones far away. Balance will prevail.

It's incredible to even think that the Feds are considering this. We're starting to act like a European country!!!

And at the very worst if the feds do prop up the airlines, the executives should be made to accept public sector pay packages. I sure as heck don't want to see my taxes going into those bonus packages (and I'm sure they'll all get a fat bonus if they manage to win money from the government).

Patrick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: I love the new math...

Boeing, our Pac NW behemoth, just announced 20-30% personnel cuts in W.Washington. This will of course trickle down to all the indepent suppliers they use.

Quite an ax cut.

del

 

[cp1969]

No tax dollars to subsidize airlines until their pay scale for execs (and pilots, for that matter) is lowered to something resembling median pay for most workers. I can't see subsidizing multi-million dollar execs or $200k/yr bus drivers.